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Originally posted by NeoPhono I'd also add that the "average" American doctor works 10-15 hours more a week than their UK counterpart and a US intern/resident is capped at 80 hours a week vs. the 48 hour weekly cap of a junior doctor in Britain.

bullshit, doctors opt out of the EU working time regulation, all the doctors I know work 80 hour weeks.
fox news is full of shit

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Originally posted by Az bullshit, doctors opt out of the EU working time regulation, all the doctors I know work 80 hour weeks. fox news is full of shit

Uh...this isn't Fox News...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8177878.stm

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ours/article.do

trainee doctors.
which is entirely sensible, overworking underqualified medical practioners is a recipe for disaster

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Originally posted by Az trainee doctors. which is entirely sensible, overworking underqualified medical practioners is a recipe for disaster

Non sequitur. I'm arguing work load vs. compensation as an obstacle to doctors entering the profession.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Non sequitur. I'm arguing work load vs. compensation as an obstacle to doctors entering the profession.

the difference between the US and the UK, becoming a doctor is about helping the sick, financial reward, whilst substantial, is secondary.

My mom got her D.M.D. in 1994 at a cost of $186,000. She still owes more than $100,000.

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Originally posted by Krypton My mom got her D.M.D. in 1994 at a cost of $186,000. She still owes more than $100,000.

without knowing what the average dentist makes in the US, that seems odd, the average dentist in the UK earns over 6 figures, so can clearly afford to pay back more than 6k per annum towards student loans.
I suggest your mother spends more of her money paying back her loans rather than funding trivial rehab costs for her retarded son?

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Originally posted by Az the difference between the US and the UK, becoming a doctor is about helping the sick, financial reward, whilst substantial, is secondary.

Yup, we're all just a bunch of money grubbing bastards over here.

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Originally posted by Az without knowing what the average dentist makes in the US,

Perhaps you could come back to us when you know what the fuck you'r talking about.

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Originally posted by Krypton Delete public. Insert GOP. Healthcare is on par with utilities, infrastructure, etc and should be regulated heavily by the government, just like every other first world country. You seem content in America's continuing stumble down the standard of living list. You are content in a healthcare system that is an obvious failure, and blindly rejecting a serious attempt to reform it. Republicans aren't providing their own proposals. Nooooo. Their only focus is making sure Obama/Democrats fail. Perhaps revenge for Bush's stupidity?

It's obviously not just the GOP who is against this. Look at the polling data. A majority of Americans do not want this bill. And 57% do not want a public option. Obama et. al. don't care what the people want, they just want to ram it through. And, the health industry IS heavily regulated. The questions are about HOW it's regulated.

I can't believe you seriously think America is spiraling down the standard of living list. You can be without a fucking job right now for 79 weeks and get almost $1800/month through unemployment... you can get food stamps and whatever... "poor" people in this country have cell phones, TV's, and rug rats wearing $100 Nike's. Try going to somewhere like Bulgaria and look at what their definition of "poor" is, then tell me America's living standard is something to worry about.

You (and others) keep making the mistake that the people who oppose THIS sorry excuse for a bill are content and would choose to do nothing. That is straw man city. I would love to see some changes; some real reform man, and so would a lot of people who are protesting right now. They aren't all Republicans either... Democrats and independants are speaking out at the town halls with just as much outrage. You keep using the word "reform", but that is not what is happening in this bill... government control/takeover and management, and putting your healthcare decisions in the hands of burecrats is more like it. People want reform, just not Obama's definition of it. BTW... have you ever spent time in and around a VA hospital and see how those places are run?

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Private insurance should be as private as the electricity grid. In my personal opinion, health insurance companies shouldn't be allowed to make a profit.

That's insane. I don't get it... you think they should volunteer their time or something? You've totally bought into the demonization meme. It's just like with the drug companies; people freak out over the profits they make, but guess what? 92% of developed drugs don't make it through the FDA process and reach the market. Those drug companies spend billions of dollars hoping just a few can make it big, and when they do, they need that profit to research and develop more drugs, of which an average of only 8% will be successful.

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As for the abortion lie you just posted, keep reading...None of the reform bills "even mentioned the word abortion until this latest version took on this issue last week," Farley said, referring to an amendment introduced by Rep. Lois Capps, D-Calif. The amendment would segregate "the money that would be used to cover abortions. It would specifically prohibit federal dollars from being used to subsidize abortions."

Abortion lie? They plan to use taxpayer money to fund it, son.

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AP- GOVERNMENT INSURANCE WOULD ALLOW COVERAGE FOR ABORTIONS http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090805...erhaul_abortion

Or, you could click this link to watch the video of CA Democrat Rep. Zoe Lofgren admit to her constituents that the bill funds abortions, and that she believes it should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTYvK4h44RU

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As for "government coming into homes usurping parental rights." As neophono made clear, the program is VOLUNTARY. It's only absurd to you because you mistakenly (willingly or otherwise) believe the program is mandatory. It is not...

Wrong. Page 840 of the bill adds this caveat: "The state shall identify and prioritize serving communities that are in high need of such services, especially communities with a high proportion of low-income families."

State agents will prioritize which homes may or may not need interventions, and make contact (which is messed up to begin with, because what... lower socio-economic status = not as good a parent?). It would be like the social worker showing up at the front door to direct parents by government standards (which is very reassuring) how to better parent the child/children. I'm still not sure how this relates to "health care".

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What I see is someone whose fallen head over heels the rhetoric coming from Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and other idiots. A little advice. When you see Glenn Beck on tv, turn it off!!

LOL... dude I don't watch Glenn Beck's show. But it's not just rhetoric man. This is such a passionate issue because it will affect everybody, and when people become worried about the decisions of their personal well-being, being out of their hands, it's scary to them. Government control and management of anything is a disaster, and they never do it better than the private sector where people have incentive to do well. Why do you think all those Congressmen wouldn't dare put their families on the same plan they expect the public to be on? Their "government" plan is farmed out to private insurers. "Good for me but not for thee" should be their slogan. I'll accept universal health care when all the politicians agree to put themselves and their families on it too.

I do not think that a majority of americans do not want this bill. A majority of americans support the bill.

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The Democratic Party