you guys are a little late to jump on the soul clap bandwagon, being from Boston I've been listening to their stuff and going to their parties since I was 16, so I think I've got a right to say what I want about them. And let me assure you, as nice of guys as they are and as great of djs as they are, they are far from the funkiest thing in dance music right now.

I'm not exactly speaking out of turn here when I say that Soul Clap, more specifically W+L did not have the rights to do what they did with that Stevie Wonder track and all those other edits. Like I said, I'm all for bootlegging/remixing/whatever but when you blatantly rip off a key component of a famous track then pass it off as your own, you deserve to be sued in my book. There's a big difference between calling the track Stevie Wonder - Love Light in Flight (Soul Clap Edit) and Soul Clap - Love Light. Just think about it, how many 16 year old kids are going to come along to beatport, having never heard of Stevie Wonder, and think Soul Clap and W+L did that shit all on their own? Not fucking cool. And again, there's a big difference between making an edit like that and releasing a couple hundred white labels vs. releasing it digitally and stamping your name on it, providing no credit to the original artist.

As someone else pointed out, the rights were not secured for the release, plain and simple. If you understand copyright law, its not difficult to appreciate the far reaching legal implications of stealing something like that. I've got a degree in music business and have taken many classes on copyright law and find this kind of thing far more shameful than pirating a 10 year old tiesto track on kazaa.

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Last edited by Max Thomson on Dec-10-2009 at 22:12

Wolf + Lamb invented Stevie Wonder, and the music business.

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Originally posted by Clovis If you're talking about the Soul Clap edits, those guys have been making edits of old songs for quite a while now and they are releasing them because people WANT them. Those two white guys have more funk than almost anyone making dance music right now and their original productions back that up. They're putting out these edits because they love the music not because they're trying to rip off Stevie Wonder.

true, people want them, but that doesn't make it any less illegal. If they were so passionate about releasing it digitally they should've secured the rights rather than just put it out and assumed that they won't get caught (dangeorus assumption IMO). just look at dj shadow, he chops his samples to hell and still goes to the ends of the earth to clear them. its about giving credit where credits due, not capitalizing on the latest trend so you can cater to your audience. again, if it was a white label vinyl limited release then whatever but stamping your name on something that isnt yours then putting it out there for mass consumption is wrong and illegal. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can argue with that.

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Originally posted by woscar It's just so blatantly obvious that "Love Light" is an edit of Stevie Wonder's "Love Light In Flight" and that "Electric Jones" is an edit of MGMT's "Electric Feel", and that "Wicked" is an edit of Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game". None of these were conceived as a way of making a quick buck by piggybacking on other people's music, or to claim the original artist's creativity as their own. They were created to incorporate them into their own mixes. The thing is that the response to them was overwhelming and people practically begged them to release them. I know that when I first heard "Electric Jones" in a Lee Foss set I starting to see what I could do to get my hands on it.

yeah its fine to do that, its called a private re-edit. but a re-edit isn't meant to be released unless you can clear the rights for it. do you have any idea how many danny howells and ben watt re-edits I would die to get my hands on? but I recognize that I never will because releasing them uncleared would be illegal and disrespectful to the artist.

on another note I do quite like the stevie wonder edit and even put in a set of mine back before it was released (got a promo straight from the soul clap guys) but once I found out it was released as their own I was quite disappointed.

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Last edited by Max Thomson on Dec-10-2009 at 22:06

quote:

Originally posted by Max Thomson yeah its fine to do that, its called a private re-edit. but a re-edit isn't meant to be released unless you can clear the rights for it. do you have any idea how many danny howells and ben watt re-edits I would die to get my hands on? but I recognize that I never will because releasing them uncleared would be illegal and disrespectful to the artist. on another note I do quite like the stevie wonder edit and even put in a set of mine back before it was released (got a promo straight from the soul clap guys) but once I found out it was released as their own I was quite disappointed.

Are rights to these songs a flat fee, or is it percent royalties?

If it was percent royalties I can't see a reason not to get rights and release!

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Originally posted by Max Thomson you guys are a little late to jump on the soul clap bandwagon,

Jumping on the bandwagon? The only thing that changed for me was that I saw them play.

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being from Boston I've been listening to their stuff and going to their parties since I was 16, so I think I've got a right to say what I want about them. And let me assure you, as nice of guys as they are and as great of djs as they are, they are far from the funkiest thing in dance music right now.

Then who has more funk?

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I'm not exactly speaking out of turn here when I say that Soul Clap, more specifically W+L did not have the rights to do what they did with that Stevie Wonder track and all those other edits. Like I said, I'm all for bootlegging/remixing/whatever but when you blatantly rip off a key component of a famous track then pass it off as your own, you deserve to be sued in my book. There's a big difference between calling the track Stevie Wonder - Love Light in Flight (Soul Clap Edit) and Soul Clap - Love Light.

Thats because if you call it Stevie Wonder it can no longer go under the radar as it has.

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Just think about it, how many 16 year old kids are going to come along to beatport, having never heard of Stevie Wonder, and think Soul Clap and W+L did that shit all on their own? Not fucking cool. And again, there's a big difference between making an edit like that and releasing a couple hundred white labels vs. releasing it digitally and stamping your name on it, providing no credit to the original artist.

I'm sorry but that handful of 16 year old morons who have never heard of stevie don't really matter, most people will buy the edit BECAUSE it is an edit of stevie wonder and because they love the new take on the original. And how exactly do you release a white label in the digital age? You use a pseudonym or your artist name as people have been doing on beatport for a while now.

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As someone else pointed out, the rights were not secured for the release, plain and simple. If you understand copyright law, its not difficult to appreciate the far reaching legal implications of stealing something like that. I've got a degree in music business and have taken many classes on copyright law and find this kind of thing far more shameful than pirating a 10 year old tiesto track on kazaa.

I don't. It's a fine line, because while I agree the samples they used are quite blatant and obvious, the tracks are still original productions. The MGMT samples in the Hot Natured release were not cleared either. I doubt Chris Isaac's sample was cleared in Jichael Mackson - Grass Is Always Greener. There are tons of dance music tracks, some really great ones too, that contain uncleared samples from famous songs. Often times, for niche within a niche genres that we enjoy it just doesn't make sense monetarily or practically to go through the process of clearing samples. It would end up just killing the tracks all together.
It's fine for you to disagree, and I wish the process was easier so that more samples could get cleared, but as it stands there are two choices: 1. let all this great music never go anywhere because clearing the samples would be tedious, expensive and sometimes just impossible, or 2. Release the stuff under the radar with the knowledge that your sales and audience are so small anyway it is highly unlikely anyone will care. Thats what Wolf + Lamb are doing. They decided to take the risk.

Also really, if you think they're making some huge profit off of these releases, fuck man I don't know what to tell you. Beatport sales are not putting food on the table for most artists or keeping labels afloat these days. Even if they were sued for the samples, the profits are so miniscule that it would be of little benefit to anyone, and in all likelihood if any repercussions did come about it would probably just be a cease and desist from the rights holders.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Sadface For sure. Its not that big of a deal but I still disagree with it in principle. Bas, if you're going to tell us to stfu, maybe you could summarize what the law actually says, or at least shoot us a link? I have no idea where to look up "sample stealing" laws.

No.

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Originally posted by epdarks this is not an official website so i'll keep looking.... http://www.music-law.com/sampling.html basically says you need permission to do what w+l are doing.

Real credible source there

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Originally posted by Max Thomson true, people want them, but that doesn't make it any less illegal. If they were so passionate about releasing it digitally they should've secured the rights rather than just put it out and assumed that they won't get caught (dangeorus assumption IMO). just look at dj shadow, he chops his samples to hell and still goes to the ends of the earth to clear them. its about giving credit where credits due, not capitalizing on the latest trend so you can cater to your audience. again, if it was a white label vinyl limited release then whatever but stamping your name on something that isnt yours then putting it out there for mass consumption is wrong and illegal. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can argue with that.

What trend are they capitalizing on? lol

You seem awfully bitter about guys you grew up on.


DJ Shadow is going to sell albums at virgin megastore. He plays at massive festivals all over the world, yeah he has a slightly bigger prerogative to clear his samples.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by epdarks apples to oranges maybe... in my mind, releasing music for profit is worse than simply downloading music illegally. not only are you not giving $ to the original artist, you are making $ on their work. people begged for the tracks to be released, gimme a break man... that makes it ok? i guess when you start producing i will blantly rip off your music and release it FOR PROFIT, b/c i can???

They're not selling stevie wonder albums on some russian mp3 site you moron. These are original productions which heavily sample and rearrange the original. There is a difference.

If we went by your rules 90% of good hip hop would have never been available. Fuck that.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

This is like a reverse troll thread.

Amazing what TA has come to these days.

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quote:

Originally posted by bas Real credible source there

... and yet it somehow manages to be infinitely more credible than anything you've come up with.

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Originally posted by Sadface ... and yet it somehow manages to be infinitely more credible than anything you've come up with.

They sampled all that text and didn't even give credit. Hypocrites!

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