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Originally posted by TranceArmstrong it's so sad that the passionate american anti-war movement from the first part of the decade kinda died out i guess after 10 years people don't really care any more

They will once it affects their daily life, most likely now through a debt crisis.

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin They will once it affects their daily life, most likely now through a debt crisis.

Because of this, I expect top bracket income taxes go up a significant amount, maybe up to 70% again? (One can hope!) Then the rich folk will prod the rest of the populace to get unruly.

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin They will once it affects their daily life, most likely now through a debt crisis.

I honestly get the feeling that we're going to get bombed or hit with another terrorist attack soon. With all the countries we're sending drones into: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya and now Somalia, the chances of a retaliatory attack will only increase. I hope Americans are ready for it.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN nope. i figured knowhope would though, given that he's spent the last X years apologising for OBL & AQ with his truther idiocy.

Err...ok?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN there are, of course, many other reputable sources that mention AQ prior to 911.

Do you have any prior to the testimony of Jamal al-Fadl?

I can't find any trace of the name in Osama's 1998 fatwa, which is strange because it was supposedly formed 10 years previous. Nor any mention of it surrounding the 1993 WTC bombing, though not surprising as I don't think it had anything to do with Osama or whatever aQ is.

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Originally posted by Tweak Do you have any prior to the testimony of Jamal al-Fadl?

do you have doubts about the veracity of his testimony with regards to something so trivial?

but anyway, sure:

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Lawrence Wright in The Looming Tower points to a document called the "Tareek Osama", "a collection of memos, letters, and notes that were taken from an al Qaeda computer captured in Bosnia and entered into evidence in United States v Enaam Arnout". One of these documents details a meeting on August 11, 1988, "when the name al-Qaeda first surfaces", and includes snippets like the following: An initial estimate, within 6 months for Al-Qaida 314 brothers will be trained and ready... And on Saturday morning, 8/20/1988, the aforementioned brothers came and started the meeting, and the military work was suggested to be divided in two parts, according to duration: - Limited duration (known), they will go to Sada Camp, then get trained and distributed on Afghan fronts, under supervision of the military council. - Open duration (long), they enter a testing camp and the best brothers of them are chosen, in preparation to enter Al Qaida Al Askariya (the Military Base). The mentioned Al Qaida is basically an organized Islamic faction, its goal will be to lift the word of God, to make his religion victorious. Requirements to enter Al Qaida: - Members of the open duration. - Listening and obedient. - Good manners. - Referred from a trusted side. - Obeying statutes and instructions of Al Qaida. These are from the rules of the work.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/The_al_Qaeda_name

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Originally posted by Tweak I can't find any trace of the name in Osama's 1998 fatwa, which is strange because it was supposedly formed 10 years previous. Nor any mention of it surrounding the 1993 WTC bombing, though not surprising as I don't think it had anything to do with Osama or whatever aQ is.

i dont think osama was particularly involved with the 1993 bombing, i think that was more KSM's scheme.

im not quite sure im following your point. even if the term AQ (al qaida for those in the cheap seats) wasn't used until after 911, uh, so what? (of course it was, if this lowly terrorism student had heard of it), but im curious where you're going with this.

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Originally posted by TranceArmstrong it's so sad that the passionate american anti-war movement from the first part of the decade kinda died out i guess after 10 years people don't really care any more

I'd say it has more to do with media and culture than whether or not people actually care. For starters, there's not much to care about. What little news is actually about Afghanistan or Iraq, let alone the drone strikes in peripheral countries, is portrayed with a heavy Pentagon public relations lens.

A friend of ours who returned from tours in both countries maintains that the whole school-building/nation-building angle is largely contrived with camera shots of troops with shovels who've been promised some R&R. Rolling Stone, Frontline, 60 Minutes and NPR have taken the time to do in-depth if not less favorable reporting about what's really going on, but it's not nearly with the volume of Walter Cronkite reporting on the Vietnam conflict, in the 1960s, and there are plenty of news and non-news outlets providing news of the conflict with a less than forthright lens.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I figured Zewad knew people. I think VAR was there too. I know he mentioned at one point in another thread getting a TBI (traumatic brain injury). I don't know anyone who has died personally but I've known a few people that have come back with injuries, lots of them TBI or non-physical mental injuries, PTSD, etc. TBIs suck. I know a Major who got one in Iraq, he isn't too bad off but every so often he'll be talking and just wont be able to remember common words or ideas in his train of thought. It sucks. Another guy I know came back from Iraq with a TBI (from multiple explosions, he was Abrams commander, the gun on that thing probably fucked with his head, not to mention taking RPG and IED explosions...) and he said he developed a bi-polar condition. Sometimes you'd talk to him and he'd be on top of the world, the next he'd be so down in the dumps you worried about his safety. War fucking sucks. People often forget the non-fatal casualties, the maimed, physically and mentally. We owe them the most.

In regards to PTSD the documentary Baker Boys just finished airing here. It was scary how much war changed the guys on it. Being on the lookout for anything that could be a threat day in day out for however long their deployment is, then they have to go back to a normal life after all that time? Not surprised that more than a few said they had problems

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Originally posted by saluyamo In regards to PTSD the documentary Baker Boys just finished airing here. It was scary how much war changed the guys on it. Being on the lookout for anything that could be a threat day in day out for however long their deployment is, then they have to go back to a normal life after all that time? Not surprised that more than a few said they had problems

A couple of my business partners friends are vets, did tours in Iraq, one a marine, the other US Army.

The Marine was on patrol in a city when another platoon called in a JDAM strike on the block right next to theirs, not knowing his squad was in that area.

A 500lb bomb went through a building next to them like 100m away. It didn't hurt anyone, but no one knew it was coming. Now any sudden sound just throws him for a loop. He was at his girl friends parents house or something like that and their toaster or microwave made a big noise when it was finished and he had to sit and watch the thing till it finished so he wouldn't freak out.

Also, both of them were at my business partners house for fourth of July a few years ago and a neighbor threw firecrackers on his lawn. Before he string of firecrackers was done my business partner was on the ground and physically covered by his two friends.

Crazy.

I know it is not the most realistic movie, but the end of The Hurt Locker was pretty intense, going from that insane world of combat to the now banal, almost surrealistic civilian world. That has to fuck with some people pretty good.

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Originally posted by Marcus Summers Did anybody here know a person that was killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, here? Not looking for an argument, just wondering how it has affected people.

yes

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby A couple of my business partners friends are vets, did tours in Iraq, one a marine, the other US Army. The Marine was on patrol in a city when another platoon called in a JDAM strike on the block right next to theirs, not knowing his squad was in that area. A 500lb bomb went through a building next to them like 100m away. It didn't hurt anyone, but no one knew it was coming. Now any sudden sound just throws him for a loop. He was at his girl friends parents house or something like that and their toaster or microwave made a big noise when it was finished and he had to sit and watch the thing till it finished so he wouldn't freak out. Also, both of them were at my business partners house for fourth of July a few years ago and a neighbor threw firecrackers on his lawn. Before he string of firecrackers was done my business partner was on the ground and physically covered by his two friends. Crazy. I know it is not the most realistic movie, but the end of The Hurt Locker was pretty intense, going from that insane world of combat to the now banal, almost surrealistic civilian world. That has to fuck with some people pretty good.

Not to detract anything from how scary or how bad war is, and can be, a big part of the problem is how badly trained the normal (non-special force/elite) US troops are.

My brother in law is a luitenant in the Swiss army, machine gunners corps. As part fo a international training program, armies from around the world are invited to Switzerland to participate in training maneuvers etc, and when the US troops he was amazed how poorly trained and little real experience they had.

one particular exercise is to sit in a bunker while it's repeatedly hit with live ammo/shells - they had to stop the exercise just after it begah as the US troops were so freaked out they could not hold on.

So much apparently, is done in simulators, with recruits that aren't fit for combat in the first place.

war combat to real life will fuck people, but sending in untrained troops to a war zone does even more damage.

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Originally posted by The17sss Daniel Day Lewis was in the way with My Left Foot.

You'll take any chance you get to hate on the left