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Originally posted by EddieZilker That is also illogical.

How? People with higher IQs (take note of the controversies in IQ tests as a measurement of intelligence) tend to be atheist. if you have higher a higher IQ that means you may likely have or had money to help boost that score, and education (ask yourself why students are key to some protests) so I don't think it's illogical.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Religion should be oppressed, it is detrimental to human progress.

I think religious EXTREMISM is bad for human progress, but you're crazy to think that the secular world really gives a shit about religious interference.

Edit: western secularism.

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And i'm not saying "atheism is for rich white dudes" but a whole lot of white people in the USA are more likely to be atheist (look at the stats), and having enough money helps too, just like you'll see a few black kids from the inner city become pro athletes. I'm stating just stating sociological phenomenons.

I'm also saying that pointing out injustices of a given idea (religion, capitalism) sometimes paradoxically ends up showing who's who on the social stratification ladder.

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Originally posted by -FSP- No. What I'm saying is you need food in your stomach and a few $ to even say religion is BS. Of course there are exceptions to this and im not denying that. As for being a "fashion statement" I don't know if a "fashion statement" can be applied here, but I was not trying to imply it is one. It just becomes a symbol of people who have money and some circles of the intellectual class.

Isn't it more logical to turn it around and claim that religion has a bigger base or is more important to people who lack food in their stomach. I'm looking at the influence the church has in Africa and parts of South-America.

In general (keyword), people with a higher life standard, tend to care less for religion and therefore might be considering themselves to be atheists. I doubt it's a snobby fashion thing though. The only thing trending is the fact that in my surroundings over the last decades, it has become more socially acceptable to not belong to any religion. Apart of the increased aggregate level of education/life quality, this level of atheism here has increased by the disputes we have with finding a coexistence between an increasing number of muslims and a decreasing number of devoted christians, combined with the exposed scandals within religious institutions in Belgium.

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Originally posted by -FSP- How? People with higher IQs (take note of the controversies in IQ tests as a measurement of intelligence) tend to be atheist. if you have higher a higher IQ that means you may likely have or had money to help boost that score, and education (ask yourself why students are key to some protests) so I don't think it's illogical.

Here's what you said, which I found illogical.

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Originally posted by -FSP- No. What I'm saying is you need food in your stomach and a few $ to even say religion is BS. Of course there are exceptions to this and im not denying that. As for being a "fashion statement" I don't know if a "fashion statement" can be applied here, but I was not trying to imply it is one. It just becomes a symbol of people who have money and some circles of the intellectual class.

Until you can otherwise substantiate them, they are claims (like many I've seen on either side of this debate) based largely on personal belief rather than solid fact, for starters. Personally, while I am a theist, I can't stand it when rich, well-fed individuals who have recently won super-bowls or who claim to lead a "blessed" life, attribute such successes to God. Never-the-less, they do, there-by contradicting your claim about how a well-fed person is less likely to believe in God.

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Ok. I suck at communicating my thoughts.

Anyways I hope my IQ example clarified my thoughts. If that doesn't help, then look at the 60s counter cultural movements. the people involved in the movement were the sons and daughters of those who came from the great depression, and those who witnessed the great depression but could afford what the middle class can afford weren't really the faces of the 60s. Why weren't they the faces? They were from the era of the great depression and they hadn't experienced the luxury of living in suburbs for example.

I think it's common knowledge that people from tough upbringings and impoverished backgrounds are most likely to be in prison. look here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/sep/12/pope-benedict-atheism-secularism 0.2% of American prisoners are atheists.

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Isn't it more logical to turn it around and claim that religion has a bigger base or is more important to people who lack food in their stomach. I'm looking at the influence the church has in Africa and parts of South-America. In general (keyword), people with a higher life standard, tend to care less for religion and therefore might be considering themselves to be atheists. I doubt it's a snobby fashion thing though. The only thing trending is the fact that in my surroundings over the last decades, it has become more socially acceptable to not belong to any religion. Apart of the increased aggregate level of education/life quality, this level of atheism here has increased by the disputes we have with finding a coexistence between an increasing number of muslims and a decreasing number of devoted christians, combined with the exposed scandals within religious institutions in Belgium.

I think you have a point there, but religion on your side of the pond is totally different from how religion is treated on my side. I am saying what I am saying from a citizen from the USA's perspective. I know that over on your side that there seems to be a favorable attitude towards secularism. over in the usa \, church weddings are recognized by the state for example and that shows some tension that we have between church and state imo. I don't think it's a secret that over here we still care about religion to an extent. Over here, being an atheist is an attack on our culture. It's unamerican to many eyes.

Last edited by -FSP- on Jul-27-2011 at 01:16

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Originally posted by nefardec I could also speak about why i feel this way by bringing up a similar situation in another minority community that cannot be named.

Why would you obscure this comment??

Name away Miss Nef...

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

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Originally posted by -FSP- And i'm not saying "atheism is for rich white dudes" but a whole lot of white people in the USA are more likely to be atheist (look at the stats), and having enough money helps too,

Hmm, I don't know about that...

I wonder what the stats really are..

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

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Originally posted by pzK Isn't it more logical to turn it around and claim that religion has a bigger base or is more important to people who lack food in their stomach. I'm looking at the influence the church has in Africa and parts of South-America. In general (keyword), people with a higher life standard, tend to care less for religion and therefore might be considering themselves to be atheists. I doubt it's a snobby fashion thing though. The only thing trending is the fact that in my surroundings over the last decades, it has become more socially acceptable to not belong to any religion. Apart of the increased aggregate level of education/life quality, this level of atheism here has increased by the disputes we have with finding a coexistence between an increasing number of muslims and a decreasing number of devoted christians, combined with the exposed scandals within religious institutions in Belgium.

Agreed although I don't think it's a social thing to let go of religion. I think that people are just waking up...

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

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Originally posted by Lira The only friend I've ever ditched for religious reasons had a Master's in psychology, so I'm quick to dismiss education as a foolproof path to tolerance. As a matter of fact, I've just read about intolerance in Academia. It's a very interesting account of what does happen both on the intarwebs and off-line.

It is a shame when a quote like "knowledge is the enemy of faith" becomes equal to "the rule of thumb". And/Or the other way around.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Religion should be oppressed, it is detrimental to human progress.

I think it should definitely be specifically disincentivesed. Like people should be able to build as many places of worship as they want, but it should be completely removed from all schooling.

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