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oDrori
howdy



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kibbutz Gaash, home of all the light in Holyland

I'll let the sourceful guyz verify the rest, as for these:

quote:
Originally posted by Az
some of the next statements could probably be easily proved or disproved by anyone who lives in israel

Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories. For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians.

Why do you insist on calling the Jewish residents "Settlers" ? Hebron is both a Jewish and Arab city and the Jews have been living in there for centuries.
That ratio seems quite impossible, the only logic explanation I can think of is that since last year, the government barely funds cities where the majority is revolting... Hence it almost only supplies water to the Jews in Hebron ( scarce amount) and also a tidy bit to a few of the Arabs. It's not like the swimming pools are filling for the Jews in Hebron.

quote:
Originally posted by Az
Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites

To balance it up, we are also one of the only democracies in the middle east and pose a minimal Nuclear threat, especially compared to the countries eastwards. If you believe North Korea should be dealt with before Iraq, I guess the line is long before action against us should be taken.

quote:
Originally posted by Az
Israel currently occupies territories of two sovereign nations Lebanon and Syria in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions.

We were in negotiations with Syria, they refused continuing them once Sharon was elected (weren't too sympathized with Barak either)
A for Lebanon... Um, no, no we aren't.

quote:
Originally posted by Az
not sure about this one
Israel's current prime minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be "personally responsible" for the Sabra and Shatila massacres in Lebanon.
surely that couldn't be true

Oh the ridicule... This one is a shame. Yes, he was found responsible and was prohibited ever regaining the position of Head of Security Council... Yet the position of PM was never spared from him

quote:
Originally posted by Az
It was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads.

this one seems very likely

The Israeli foreign ministry pays two American public relations firms to promote Israel to Americans.

Possible, DK...

quote:
Originally posted by Az
Sharon's coalition government includes a party -- Molodet which advocates expelling all Palestinians from the occupied territories.

That is the National Union, unfortunately quite a strong party.

quote:
Originally posted by Az
Israel once dedicated a postage stamp to a man who attacked a Palestinian civilian bus and killed several people.

No idea about this... certainly can't remember... And, sorry for hanging on with the details but please specify who in Israel dedicated that stamp to that guy... Don't want to feel included in it.
Just to add, Yasser Arrafat dedicated a salutation to Yehi Aiash, the legendary suicede-bomb-massacre engineer. It was in Aiash's funeral and it was even in the relatively peaceful time when the negotiations with Rabin were at their peak it seemed...
Mr. Arrafat also honored Aiash with a nice speech, mentioning the hero in him and saying that he and the palastinian people "Give a salute of honor to you, Yehi Aiash" (Don't catch me on that, I wasn't exactly quoting) ... at the time I was about 9 or 10 years old and thought he was just doing it to please the Palestine people ... Now neither the possibility of him actually meaning it nor the possibility of it satisfiying the palestine people thrill me.


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Old Post Mar-28-2003 22:48  Israel
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Mental Exodus
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Can
Be Cool!

quote:
Originally posted by melech_mike
Some more Arab propaganda for ya!
Once a liar, always a liar!

The governments and organizations of many Arab/Muslim countries cannot be trusted what so ever.


LOL! Can the Isreal gov be trused?

quote:

These groups/regimes have publicly vowed the destruction of Israel.

Because there devils and Israel is innocent right?

quote:

This in no way mean's they will limit their aggression to physical violence; all options are open to them including false accusations, lies, propaganda and incitement, all in a PR stunt to sway the international community to condemn Israel.


Ever wonder why? Oh right its cuz there pure evil bent on global take over.

quote:

Only the gullible and ignorant citizen's of this world would believe such claims only reported on anti-israel/pro-arab websites.


Thease claims would reach TV but the Jews who own hollyhood aint gona let that happen are they? The net is next best place.


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Old Post Mar-28-2003 23:59  Canada
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Az
took me all the way back



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Walking to John O'Groats for some spastics

odrori, thats taken from the html document I was sent, I haven't called anyone settlers, the words used on the page.....
although a lot of it seems quite worrying.....
Yoepus, regarding the philosopher, he was there at the time, and it was his point of view at that time, maybe you'd want to do some research on him?
"again, so?"
this you should be worried about, Joseph Weitz was the man employed by the government to oversee the relocation of the palestinians. With a man with that power, and an attitude like that, it's easy to see why the problems have esculated so much.
Regarding the Ariel Sharon matter, thats an absolute disgrace.....

Old Post Mar-29-2003 00:11 
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Tranex02
/confused



Registered: May 2001
Location: United States

i hope this issue is taken off the 'back-burner' soon....
it's taken long enough, and it's definatly not going to be an easy task.... esp. with Sharon's new government....
I think sacrifices will have to be made from all sides of the issue.... and i personally don't think Sharon is the man for the job.
he refuses to even meet with Arafat..... As for Arafat.... i'm sure we all agree that the palestinians are better off without him....

btw....maybe someone could answer this.... Why hasn't Israel killed Arafat yet?????


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Old Post Mar-29-2003 01:21  Syria
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melech_mike
Kill Arafat Alliance



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Toronto (Thornhill)

quote:
Originally posted by Tranex02
btw....maybe someone could answer this.... Why hasn't Israel killed Arafat yet?????

Sharon's promise to Bush.
Don't know the exact details of the promise.

I'm sure there are articles about it somewhere on the net


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Old Post Mar-29-2003 01:32  Israel
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oDrori
howdy



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kibbutz Gaash, home of all the light in Holyland

quote:
Originally posted by Tranex02
btw....maybe someone could answer this.... Why hasn't Israel killed Arafat yet?????


Would U mind rephrasing? I could think of 2 ways this question could be interpreted...

A) How comes the [pretty agressive and not too Arafat friendly] Israeli government hasn't gotten rid of Arafat yet?

B) Why don't the Israeli government kill Arafat already?
->If this is the case, I find it quite surprising to see someone suggesting it... Imagine the reaction of the Pro-Palestine world...


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Old Post Mar-29-2003 10:36  Israel
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melech_mike
Kill Arafat Alliance



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Toronto (Thornhill)

An interesting article related to this thread.

quote:
The Myth of the "Palestinian" People.

By Yehezkel Bin-Nun

"Palestinians doubt Blair can deliver," announces the BBC. "Four Palestinians die in West Bank," reports CNN. "IDF demolishes building used by Palestinian gunmen," announces Israel's government run Channel 1 News. The modern media is filled with stories about the Palestinians, their plight, their dilemmas and their struggles. All aspects of their lives seem to have been put under the microscope. Only one question never seems to be addressed: Who are the Palestinians? Who are these people who claim the Holy Land as their own? What is their history? Where did they come from? How did they arrive in the country they call Palestine? Now that both US President George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (in direct opposition to the platform he was elected on) have come out in favor of a Palestinian state, it would be prudent to seek answers to these questions. For all we know, Palestine could be as real as Disneyland


The general impression given in the media is that Palestinians have lived in the Holy Land for hundreds, if not thousands of years. No wonder, then, that a recent poll of French citizens shows that the majority believe (falsely) that prior to the establishment of the State of Israel an independent Arab Palestinian state existed in its place. Yet curiously, when it comes to giving the history of this "ancient" people most news outlets find it harder to go back more than the early nineteen hundreds. CNN, an agency which has devoted countless hours of airtime to the "plight" of the Palestinians, has a website which features a special section on the Middle East conflict called "Struggle For Peace". It includes a



promising sounding section entitled "Lands Through The Ages" which assures us it will detail the history of the region using maps. Strangely, it turns out, the maps displayed start no earlier than the ancient date of 1917. The CBS News website has a background section called "A Struggle For Middle East Peace." Its history timeline starts no earlier than 1897. The NBC News background section called "Searching for Peace" has a timeline which starts in 1916. BBC's timeline starts in 1948.

Yet, the clincher must certainly be the Palestinian National Authority's own website. While it is top heavy on such phrases as "Israeli occupation" and "Israeli human rights violations" the site offers practically nothing on the history of the so-called Palestinian people. The only article on the site with any historical content is called "Palestinian History - 20th Century Milestones" which seems only to confirm that prior to 1900 there was no such concept as the Palestinian People.

While the modern media maybe short on information about the history of the "Palestinian people" the historical record is not. Books, such as Battleground by Samuel Katz and From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters long ago detailed the history of the region. Far from being settled by Palestinians for hundreds, if not thousands of years, the Land of Israel, according to dozens of visitors to the land, was, until the beginning of the last century, practically empty. Alphonse de Lamartine visited the land in 1835.In his book, Recollections of the East, he writes "Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound. "None other than the famous American author Mark Twain, who visited the Land of Israel in 1867, confirms this. In his book Innocents Abroad he writes, "A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely.. We never saw a human being on the whole journey." Even the British Consul in Palestine reported, in 1857, "The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population."

In fact, according to official Ottoman Turk census figures of 1882, in the entire Land of Israel, there were only 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab. This number was to skyrocket to 650,000 Arabs by 1922, a 450% increase in only 40 years. By 1938 that number would become over 1 million or an 800% increase in only 56 years. Population growth was especially high in areas where Jews lived. Where did all these Arabs come from? According to the Arabs the huge increase in their numbers was due to natural childbirth. In 1944, for example, they alleged that the natural increase (births minus deaths) of Arabs in the Land of Israel was the astounding figure of 334 per 1000. That would make it roughly three times the corresponding rate for the same year of Lebanon and Syria and almost four times that of Egypt, considered amongst the highest in the world. Unlikely, to say the least. If the massive increase was not due to natural births, then were did all these Arabs come from?

All the evidence points to the neighboring Arab states of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. In 1922 the British Governor of the Sinai noted that "illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria." In 1930, the British Mandate -sponsored Hope-Simpson Report noted that "unemployment lists are being swollen by immigrants from Trans-Jordania" and "illicit immigration through Syria and across the northern frontier of Palestine is material." The Arabs themselves bare witness to this trend. For example, the governor of the Syrian district of Hauran, Tewfik Bey el Hurani, admitted in 1934 that in a single period of only a few months over 30,000 Syrians from Hauran had moved to the Land of Israel. Even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted the Arab influx. Churchill, a veteran of the early years of the British mandate in the Land of Israel, noted in 1939 that "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied."

Far from displacing the Arabs, as they claimed, the Jews were the very reason the Arabs chose to settle in the Land of Israel. Jobs provided by newly established Zionist industry and agriculture lured them there, just as Israeli construction and industry provides most Arabs in the Land of Israel with their main source of income today. Malcolm MacDonald, one of the principal authors of the British White Paper of 1939, which restricted Jewish immigration to the Land of Israel, admitted (conservatively) that were it not for a Jewish presence the Arab population would have been little more than half of what it actually was. Today, when due to the latest "intifada" Arabs from the territories under 35 are no longer allowed into pre-1967 Israel to work, unemployment has skyrocketed to over 40% and most rely on European aid packages to survive.

Not only pre-state Arabs lied about being indigenous. Even today, many prominent so-called Palestinians, it turns out, are foreign born. Edward Said, an Ivy League Professor of Literature and a major Palestinian propagandist, long claimed to have been raised in Jerusalem. However, in an article in the September 1999 issue of Commentary Magazine Justus Reid Weiner revealed that Said actually grew up in Cairo, Egypt, a fact which Said himself was later forced to admit. But why bother with Said? PLO chief Yasir Arafat himself, self declared "leader of the Palestinian people", has always claimed to have been born and raised in "Palestine". In fact, according to his official biographer Richard Hart, as well as the BBC, Arafat was born in Cairo on August 24, 1929 and that's where he grew up.

To maintain the charade of being an indigenous population, Arab propagandists have had to do more than a little rewriting of history. A major part of this rewriting involves the renaming of geography. For two thousand years the central mountainous region of Israel was known as Judea and Samaria, as any medieval map of the area testifies. However, the state of Jordan occupied the area in 1948 and renamed it the West Bank. This is a funny name for a region that actually lies in the eastern portion of the land and can only be called "West" in reference to Jordan. This does not seem to bother the majority of news outlets covering the region, which universally refer to the region by its recent Jordanian name.

The term "Palestinian" is itself a masterful twisting of history. To portray themselves as indigenous, Arab settlers adopted the name of an ancient Canaanite tribe, the Philistines, that died out almost 3000 years ago. The connection between this tribe and modern day Arabs is nil. Who is to know the difference? Given the absence of any historical record, one can understand why Yasser Arafat claims that Jesus Christ, a Jewish carpenter from the Galilee, was a Palestinian. Every year, at Christmas time, Arafat goes to Bethlehem and tells worshippers that Jesus was in fact "the first Palestinian".

If the Palestinians are indeed a myth, then the real question becomes "Why?" Why invent a fictitious people? The answer is that the myth of the Palestinian People serves as the justification for Arab occupation of the Land of Israel. While the Arabs already possess 21 sovereign countries of their own (more than any other single people on earth) and control a land mass 800 times the size of the Land of Israel, this is apparently not enough for them. They therefore feel the need to rob the Jews of their one and only country, one of the smallest on the planet. Unfortunately, many people ignorant of the history of the region, including much of the world media, are only too willing to help.

On second thought, it may be unfair to compare Palestine to Disneyland. After all, Disneyland really exists.


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Old Post Mar-29-2003 11:33  Israel
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Cyrus, AZ, Nalin, Ahamalek, Tranceaholic
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