quote:

Originally posted by elevate National Healthcare is often very poor when compared to the healthcare in the US. There are many more hopsitals in Canada than in the US, that I would not step foot in because of poor surgical and other types of care. Also, they are generaly a lot more overcrowded than US hospitals.

true, but its better than not going cause you dont have coverage or cant afford it.

quote:

Originally posted by elevate that is just blatantly not true I have arranged and overseen many such "deals" (deals is not really the right word for it, many times they are just charity projects brought on by the US companies).

its not charity for the people of chiapas.

quote:

Originally posted by elevate National Healthcare is often very poor when compared to the healthcare in the US. There are many more hopsitals in Canada than in the US, that I would not step foot in because of poor surgical and other types of care. Also, they are generaly a lot more overcrowded than US hospitals. I have lived and have had hospital stays in both countries. Just my opinion and the opinion of many of my peers (from a New England college that we all went to) I guess.

I don't believe that that really is true. We have a fairly good hospital system here, and their are definitelly no hospitals that are unsafe to step foor in here because of poor care. The only problem we have with our hospital system is that their can be long wait times because their slightly understaffed. But they are definitelly perfectly safe.

quote:

Originally posted by TuanAnh213 lucky class? the fuck you smoking? im just another average middle class member of society...i live in a two story house, we got three cars...there are countless millions of other fellow american citizens living like that...its not like 90 percent of the american population are lower class poverty stricken people like in mexico...every country has its poor, middle class and rich people...for you to generalize on america and calling it a horrible place to live shows your true ignorance

I would like to point out that most average white collor middle class people don't have three cars. As a statistic I would guess that would put you in the richer third of the population. It's true that their are countless millions of people who like you do perfectly well, but their are considerably more who don't.

I am by no means saying that 90% of Americans live in poverty, or that even 50% do. I believe the statistic is probably somewhere near 30%, which is still very high. But it's not only the poor who are hurt by your governments policies. What about those 50 million odd people in jail. Do you think they all deserve to be there? Do you think they were all from the lower class? What about all those kids who were throwing in jail for petty theft? or for smoking marijuana? It's people like that who make up the majority of people in prison and not murders and rapists.

It is true that every country has it's rich, it's poor and it's middle class but their are fundamental differences in how poor the poor are and how rich the rich are. The gap between the two is bigger in America then in any other Western nation. Their are also fundamental differences in how the people of those classes are treates. In America the poor don't recieve medical care, don't recieve post secondary education, barelly recieve enough government support to survive on, recieve much harsher sentences if arrested and are in general very marginalized. In other countries the poor recieve medical care, either recieve post secondary education or help towards paying for it, recieve a reasonable amount of support to live on, recieve more equal sentences and are helped by the government in many more ways.

And what of my other critizisms of your country? You didn't reply to what I said about violence, your legal system, the gap between the rich and poor, your lack of civil liberties or your jails?

and by the way saying things like "lucky class? the fuck you smoking?" doesn't exactly make you sound intellegent or your argument sound in any way valid.

___________________
If anyone can get me the following records please contact me:

DJ Tiesto - Battleship Grey (Miro remix)
Tilt - Invisible (Tilt's human mix)

I don't talk trash about anyone unless they're stupid. ie; the starter of this thread.

Fucking moron.

___________________
HURRR

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio I don't believe that that really is true. We have a fairly good hospital system here, and their are definitelly no hospitals that are unsafe to step foor in here because of poor care. The only problem we have with our hospital system is that their can be long wait times because their slightly understaffed. But they are definitelly perfectly safe. I would like to point out that most average white collor middle class people don't have three cars. As a statistic I would guess that would put you in the richer third of the population. It's true that their are countless millions of people who like you do perfectly well, but their are considerably more who don't. I am by no means saying that 90% of Americans live in poverty, or that even 50% do. I believe the statistic is probably somewhere near 30%, which is still very high. But it's not only the poor who are hurt by your governments policies. What about those 50 million odd people in jail. Do you think they all deserve to be there? Do you think they were all from the lower class? What about all those kids who were throwing in jail for petty theft? or for smoking marijuana? It's people like that who make up the majority of people in prison and not murders and rapists. It is true that every country has it's rich, it's poor and it's middle class but their are fundamental differences in how poor the poor are and how rich the rich are. The gap between the two is bigger in America then in any other Western nation. Their are also fundamental differences in how the people of those classes are treates. In America the poor don't recieve medical care, don't recieve post secondary education, barelly recieve enough government support to survive on, recieve much harsher sentences if arrested and are in general very marginalized. In other countries the poor recieve medical care, either recieve post secondary education or help towards paying for it, recieve a reasonable amount of support to live on, recieve more equal sentences and are helped by the government in many more ways. And what of my other critizisms of your country? You didn't reply to what I said about violence, your legal system, the gap between the rich and poor, your lack of civil liberties or your jails? and by the way saying things like "lucky class? the fuck you smoking?" doesn't exactly make you sound intellegent or your argument sound in any way valid.

you fucking ****...if you actually READ through the pages you would've realized that i DID in fact reoply to your other criticisms on page seven so go back and read them before you reply again you fucktard what are you blind or something?

anyways...what is your point in keep arguing with me? the fact that your absolutely blinding ignorant head is stuck so far up your ass there really is no point in arguing...you can just go ahead and believe tat the US uis a horrible and terrible place to live..nobody, especially us americans give a fuck cuz we know america ISNT a horrible place to live...you ask any american here how they enjoy living in the states they say there isn't any other place they'd rather be living in...obviously i nkow that since i LIVE in america

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*** Sig edited -> image exceeds 50k byte size restriction
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quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio I would like to point out that most average white collor middle class people don't have three cars. As a statistic I would guess that would put you in the richer third of the population. It's true that their are countless millions of people who like you do perfectly well, but their are considerably more who don't. I am by no means saying that 90% of Americans live in poverty, or that even 50% do. I believe the statistic is probably somewhere near 30%, which is still very high. But it's not only the poor who are hurt by your governments policies. What about those 50 million odd people in jail. Do you think they all deserve to be there? Do you think they were all from the lower class? What about all those kids who were throwing in jail for petty theft? or for smoking marijuana? It's people like that who make up the majority of people in prison and not murders and rapists. It is true that every country has it's rich, it's poor and it's middle class but their are fundamental differences in how poor the poor are and how rich the rich are. The gap between the two is bigger in America then in any other Western nation. Their are also fundamental differences in how the people of those classes are treates. In America the poor don't recieve medical care, don't recieve post secondary education, barelly recieve enough government support to survive on, recieve much harsher sentences if arrested and are in general very marginalized. In other countries the poor recieve medical care, either recieve post secondary education or help towards paying for it, recieve a reasonable amount of support to live on, recieve more equal sentences and are helped by the government in many more ways. And what of my other critizisms of your country? You didn't reply to what I said about violence, your legal system, the gap between the rich and poor, your lack of civil liberties or your jails? and by the way saying things like "lucky class? the fuck you smoking?" doesn't exactly make you sound intellegent or your argument sound in any way valid.

You are rife with incorrect statistics. The number of people in jail (excluding those on parole or on probabtion) in the US numbers at around 2 million. Where you get your 50 million figure, I have no idea.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/correct.htm

The poverty rate in the US in 2001 was approximately 11.7%.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/...01/pov01hi.html

In comparison, the poverty rate in Candada in 1999 was 16.2%

http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_pov9099.htm

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by TuanAnh213 you fucking ****...if you actually READ through the pages you would've realized that i DID in fact reoply to your other criticisms on page seven so go back and read them before you reply again you fucktard what are you blind or something? anyways...what is your point in keep arguing with me? the fact that your absolutely blinding ignorant head is stuck so far up your ass there really is no point in arguing...you can just go ahead and believe tat the US uis a horrible and terrible place to live..nobody, especially us americans give a fuck cuz we know america ISNT a horrible place to live...you ask any american here how they enjoy living in the states they say there isn't any other place they'd rather be living in...obviously i nkow that since i LIVE in america

you replied to the first set of things I said. As to the second part you simply said that you weren't part of a lucky class of people. You never replied to defend your country on any of the later things I said. And you still haven't replied to the fact that I don't believe having a house and three cars places you in the middle class.

I would like to point out that I am actually discussing here and making points and your just swearing and saying how I'm an idiot. It seems like you are the one who's, "blinding ignorant head is stuck so far up your ass there really is no point in arguing"

And saying that any American here would rather live there then anywhere else is completely meaningless. Firstly it's a completelly unrepresentative sample and secondly that doesn't make it a great place.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider You are rife with incorrect statistics. The number of people in jail (excluding those on parole or on probabtion) in the US numbers at around 2 million. Where you get your 50 million figure, I have no idea. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/correct.htm The poverty rate in the US in 2001 was approximately 11.7%. http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/...01/pov01hi.html In comparison, the poverty rate in Candada in 1999 was 16.2% http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_pov9099.htm

The 50 million was a typeo. I was going for 5 million. And the poverty rate is not a difined thing. It completelly comes down to how its calculated and as a result the number can vary a lot.

___________________
If anyone can get me the following records please contact me:

DJ Tiesto - Battleship Grey (Miro remix)
Tilt - Invisible (Tilt's human mix)

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio And the poverty rate is not a difined thing. It completelly comes down to how its calculated and as a result the number can vary a lot.

If the poverty rate is something that cannot be clearly defined, why would you use it in your misguided argument that living in America is "awful?"

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio theres a bill in Texas to cut the school week to 4 days because theyve spent all their money on prisons.

I've already proven this untrue. As a point of fact the school days continue Mon-Fri.

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio And to whomever said that there are more oppurtunities and jobs in the U.S. I don't quite see how that is true. I believe that you guys have a higher unemployment rate.

2001 unemployment rate statistics:

Canada 7.2% (2001 est.)

United States 5% (2001)

United Kingdom 5.1% (2001 est.)

http://www.bartleby.com/151/a71.html

http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicat...ic_168_1_1.html

It's true that there seems to be a global recession atm, but Canada's unemployment rate is still higher than the US (and many European countries). It rose to 7.8% in July:

http://www.workopolis.com/servlet/C...on=Bruce_Little

The US is holding at about 6.1% right now. Both countries' economies are very interdependent however...


As for Tuan being in the "rich" class, I don't really think that is so. My family is in the middle class. We live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with very little crime. We have 4 cars,and went to good schools. I have much of my college education already paid for because of investment plans...

I don't hate Canada at all though. In fact, Vancouver would be a great place to live (even though it's a bit cold). I've taken a trip up to Canada to take pictures, and the natural beauty there is amazing. Of course, it's just imaginary boundaries that divide the land...

So I don't understand this kind of ignorance and hatred towards the US, unless it's based on foreign policy and the current administration. Most people (liberals and rednecks alike) agree that the Patriot Act is something that infringes on civil liberties. I feel sure that it will be struck down in the future in the courts. Every country has it's problems, and the US is no exception. I blame most of the US' problems on social and religious conservatism, but perhaps that's an ignorant statement as well.

Without the US, the Canadian economy would be in shambles. This is in fact one of the main reasons for the current lagging Canadian economy (US economy has worsened).




P.S.
Don't trip over a moose.

There are no hard feelings at least from me, but you can't just make those kind of inflammatory statements without knowing the facts...

(In other words, I couldn't accurately comment on living in Canada without actually living there)

Last edited by DaveSZ on Aug-23-2003 at 14:00

This is certainly interesting though:

Is this an example of the Canadian gov. caring for it's people?

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy i live in a suburb of toronto called etobicoke...its always been a bit ghetto here but u get used to it...but all of a sudden theres like an overpopulation of bums in my area and its pissing me off....we have hookers here now bums etc... what happened to our plain old crack heads....they never bothered anyone well i get off early from work today cause i have an appointment and I drive home...i get to my drivway with my hammer in hand because i needed to bring it home today...so i pull in, get out of my car and walk to my door when this bum comes running from across my street and starts asking me for money to use my phone for this for that for a bit of water...so i turn to him and say "can i intrest you in a hammer to the head?" and he walks away...like jesus honestly im from the burbs if ur gonna peddle go somewhere where ppl have money!!!! and to come and ask me when im at my own door coming home from work just really bothers me, like this is my safeway away from all the troubles of the world.. fuck ahhhhhhhh u dont understand how much this pissess me off....i should have hit him and told him to spread the message that vivid is in town and hes cleanin up the trash lol

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy dude i have nuthin against bums i actually defend them alot...see the problem is in toronto most of our homeless people are because the government shut down this program which took care of ppl with mental diseases who cant take care of themselves...so now that this program is gone they have nowhere to go and they cant take care of themselves and really feel sorry for them and pissed that the government would do this just cause they dont want to throw the money out of their pockets..but the truth is i dont enjoy being harassed when im entering my home...this is my home i dont want to be harassed for my shit..i swear i was about to hit the guy over the head with my hammer just cause he was harassing me soo fuckin much... my mom came to the door and was tryng to be friendly she understood tho why i got so angry and said what i said..i mean its not right...even if ur homeless at least carry some dignity with you

You see my point now?




Just because I read or hear a few stories, it doesn't mean I can generalize about Canada (or Toronto), and call it an "awful" place to live.

Last edited by DaveSZ on Aug-23-2003 at 14:02

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSaenz If the poverty rate is something that cannot be clearly defined, why would you use it in your misguided argument that living in America is "awful?" I've already proven this untrue. As a point of fact the school days continue Mon-Fri. 2001 unemployment rate statistics: Canada 7.2% (2001 est.) United States 5% (2001) United Kingdom 5.1% (2001 est.) http://www.bartleby.com/151/a71.html http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicat...ic_168_1_1.html It's true that there seems to be a global recession atm, but Canada's unemployment rate is still higher than the US (and many European countries). It rose to 7.8% in July: http://www.workopolis.com/servlet/C...on=Bruce_Little The US is holding at about 6.1% right now. Both countries' economies are very interdependent however... As for Tuan being in the "rich" class, I don't really think that is so. My family is in the middle class. We live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with very little crime. We have 4 cars,and went to good schools. I have much of my college education already paid for because of investment plans... I don't hate Canada at all though. In fact, Vancouver would be a great place to live (even though it's a bit cold). I've taken a trip up to Canada to take pictures, and the natural beauty there is amazing. Of course, it's just imaginary boundaries that divide the land... So I don't understand this kind of ignorance and hatred towards the US, unless it's based on foreign policy and the current administration. Most people (liberals and rednecks alike) agree that the Patriot Act is something that infringes on civil liberties. I feel sure that it will be struck down in the future in the courts. Every country has it's problems, and the US is no exception. I blame most of the US' problems on social and religious conservatism, but perhaps that's an ignorant statement as well. Without the US, the Canadian economy would be in shambles. This is in fact one of the main reasons for the current lagging Canadian economy (US economy has worsened). P.S. Don't trip over a moose. There are no hard feelings at least from me, but you can't just make those kind of inflammatory statements without knowing the facts... (In other words, I couldn't accurately comment on living in Canada without actually living there)

The poverty rate cannot be clearly defined because there are many different ways of producing a number. This does not mean that one should not use it as a point in an argument. Almost any statistical measure cannot be clearly defined because their are many different ways of doing an analysis. Each different way has it's good and bads. Just because there isn't one answer doesn't mean noone should use any of them as a tool to show a point.

I know that the school week is still five days, I never said it wasn't. All I said was that their was a bill on the table to cut it down from five to four.

You are right about the unemployment statistics. As of now were at 7.8 and your at 6.2. That was a mistake on my part.

And I never said that Tuan was in the rich class. I do however believe that living in a house with three cars places you in the upper middle class, which is a minority in the population. And you as well would probably be placed there if you have four cars and a house.

To say that I can't comment on living in the U.S. unless I've lived there doesn't really make much sense. I can look at a country and make judgements based on what I know without first hand information. If I were to say that living in Iraq would be awful would that also be unreasonable?

And I would like to point out to you as well Dave that you are in a lucky class of people. If you were a poor minority, which a lot of people in the states are, you would probably feel different. Or if you were among all those people tossed in jail for smoking a joint. You have to be able to look at a place objectively regardless of how well you do. I live a good middle class life here, but I understand that this still isn't a great place. That their are still a lot of people starving on the streets and being beaten by the police and having their rights violated. I would like to reiderate that Canada is not an amazing place in any sense. I never was trying to argue that. All I was saying was that in my opinion the U.S. is a quite bad place. And I would like to point out that the U.S. as a country is much richer then us. You guys have the resources to have an amazing education system, an amazing medicare system, etc. but instead the money is put into jails, and fighting "terror" and tax cuts for the rich.

And none of this is to say Americans are bad people. I just feel that as a country their are a lot of serious problems.

___________________
If anyone can get me the following records please contact me:

DJ Tiesto - Battleship Grey (Miro remix)
Tilt - Invisible (Tilt's human mix)

^America does have some serious problems, but there are other countries with worse problems, like Iraq.

quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate ^America does have some serious problems, but there are other countries with worse problems, like Iraq.

at least they don't have bush running their country...

well, they really don't have anyone running their country...

___________________

It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio The poverty rate cannot be clearly defined because there are many different ways of producing a number. This does not mean that one should not use it as a point in an argument. Almost any statistical measure cannot be clearly defined because their are many different ways of doing an analysis. Each different way has it's good and bads. Just because there isn't one answer doesn't mean noone should use any of them as a tool to show a point. I know that the school week is still five days, I never said it wasn't. All I said was that their was a bill on the table to cut it down from five to four. You are right about the unemployment statistics. As of now were at 7.8 and your at 6.2. That was a mistake on my part. And I never said that Tuan was in the rich class. I do however believe that living in a house with three cars places you in the upper middle class, which is a minority in the population. And you as well would probably be placed there if you have four cars and a house. To say that I can't comment on living in the U.S. unless I've lived there doesn't really make much sense. I can look at a country and make judgements based on what I know without first hand information. If I were to say that living in Iraq would be awful would that also be unreasonable? And I would like to point out to you as well Dave that you are in a lucky class of people. If you were a poor minority, which a lot of people in the states are, you would probably feel different. Or if you were among all those people tossed in jail for smoking a joint. You have to be able to look at a place objectively regardless of how well you do. I live a good middle class life here, but I understand that this still isn't a great place. That their are still a lot of people starving on the streets and being beaten by the police and having their rights violated. I would like to reiderate that Canada is not an amazing place in any sense. I never was trying to argue that. All I was saying was that in my opinion the U.S. is a quite bad place. And I would like to point out that the U.S. as a country is much richer then us. You guys have the resources to have an amazing education system, an amazing medicare system, etc. but instead the money is put into jails, and fighting "terror" and tax cuts for the rich. And none of this is to say Americans are bad people. I just feel that as a country their are a lot of serious problems.

Ok, I see your point now I suppose. I thought you were trying to make some kind of infantile USA vs. Canada argument....

I agree about the tax breaks for the rich. They should pay the most taxes, and not complain about it. That's why it's scary that so many sheeple would jump to support Arnold for gov just because of his name, and not even take into consideration his policies.

I also agree that the "war on drugs" is a miserable failure, and was so from the start. It's a shame so many politicians are afraid to admit this because they fear being seen as "weak."
For simple use of pot though, you are not given a prison sentence. I know because I've had friends in that predicament. Yes you are arrested though. I've also seen a documentary on how minorities are treated differently by the legal system, and it's just not right.

Yes if I were a poor person living on the streets, I wouldn't think this is such a great place. Don't all countries have poor and homeless though? That's where the poverty statistics come into play, but then unless they are all compiled using a universal standard (I'm not sure that they are), they are more or less not very useful or comparable.

As for the state of Texas considering changing school days to 4 days per week to fund more prisons, that just smells like spin to me. Post the article where you got that information.

Last edited by DaveSZ on Aug-24-2003 at 05:40