quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx All of our points are made- It's just a bit clusterfuck chaos mess over there. One thing feeds the other- it's a vicious cycle which I dont see any end. Both of you are talking about perfect world situations and the way it should be. Well- it's just not like that. Each side has no respect for the other really.

No we are talking real world. Real lives real people not a game. You have to show restraint. Your not shooting targets your shooting real people.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Calling Iraqis subhumans is a good way to get the Iraqis to like you, eh? And you wonder why Yanks are doing poorly in Iraq.

As was stated in other parts of this thread I misspoke and meant the Iraqi terrorists, not the Iraqi people as a whole.

quote:

All of our points are made- It's just a bit clusterfuck chaos mess over there. One thing feeds the other- it's a vicious cycle which I dont see any end. Both of you are talking about perfect world situations and the way it should be. Well- it's just not like that. Each side has no respect for the other really.

But it doesn't have to be like that!

If the US just took one step back and actually thought for just a second what their actions were likely to lead to they might think, hey, maybe us pursuing this course of action is having the OPPOSITE EFFECT as to what we want!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But it doesn't have to be like that! If the US just took one step back and actually thought for just a second what their actions were likely to lead to they might think, hey, maybe us pursuing this course of action is having the OPPOSITE EFFECT as to what we want!!!!!!!

So what is your suggestion for a resolution to this Iraqi mess then?

Before you answer a question like that you would have to ask yourself what you are actually trying to achieve...I dont think anybody from us to those incharge in Iraq have asked that question yet!

For me, we should be trying to achieve some kind of stability in Iraq and that means we should be doing everything to put an end to the current violence.

For that to happen, we have to stop forcing people to be violent (cos that is what we are doing in places like Fullajah and it will spread like wild fire round the country)

When you treat people like shit, they are gonna turn on you

After the fall of Saddam, we were under the impression that the people there supported us...we need to create that condition again!

We have to stop coming down hard on the resistance cos they are civilians that have been convinced the coalition is out to get them (and if we look at attitudes on here, you can easily see they have a point when faced with views like 'every Iraqi should be considered a target until proved otherwise for the safety of our troops')

Stop attacking and start rebuilding - get the Iraqis back on our side!

(Maybe it really is time for UN leadership? And that does not mean US out, it means the UN should command the US forces...)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Stop attacking and start rebuilding - get the Iraqis back on our side! (Maybe it really is time for UN leadership? And that does not mean US out, it means the UN should command the US forces...)

But, we were rebuilding and our civillian contractors were burned alive and dragged through the streets and hung from a bridge. How can we rebuild if we are constantly attacked?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish No we are talking real world. Real lives real people not a game. You have to show restraint. Your not shooting targets your shooting real people.

You think US soldiers are sitting over there killing civilians on purpose?

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I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Before you answer a question like that you would have to ask yourself what you are actually trying to achieve...I dont think anybody from us to those incharge in Iraq have asked that question yet! For me, we should be trying to achieve some kind of stability in Iraq and that means we should be doing everything to put an end to the current violence. For that to happen, we have to stop forcing people to be violent (cos that is what we are doing in places like Fullajah and it will spread like wild fire round the country) When you treat people like shit, they are gonna turn on you After the fall of Saddam, we were under the impression that the people there supported us...we need to create that condition again! We have to stop coming down hard on the resistance cos they are civilians that have been convinced the coalition is out to get them (and if we look at attitudes on here, you can easily see they have a point when faced with views like 'every Iraqi should be considered a target until proved otherwise for the safety of our troops') Stop attacking and start rebuilding - get the Iraqis back on our side! (Maybe it really is time for UN leadership? And that does not mean US out, it means the UN should command the US forces...)

Believe me- I am all for the UN stepping in and taking over and having all the troops out.

What happens when/if they start killing UN people?
then what would you say?

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I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx What happens when/if they start killing UN people? then what would you say?

actually the iraqi insurgents have already made sure to get the UN out of the way by bombing their main HQ a couple months after baghdad was capture... i'm glad the US at least isnt running away with their tails between their legs

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley If the US just took one step back and actually thought for just a second what their actions were likely to lead to they might think, hey, maybe us pursuing this course of action is having the OPPOSITE EFFECT as to what we want!!!!!!!

you make it seem like the iraqis are attacking the americans because the US is out to kill them. of course this is wrong, the insurgents want their leaders in control of iraq. how else would you explain the fact that they've been getting hostages from russia, japan, china and korea... god dang i'm sure the russians have thought long and hard about "what their actions were likely to lead". i'm sure restoring iraqs infrustracture infuriated the insurgents - i'm sure the insurgents were saying "how dare they come in here and try to give us a better life"

you're dealing with irrational people fighting by irrational means to achieve and irrational end

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Bloody hell! What do you think this is?! A fucking academic paper we're all taking part in?! Do you want us to reference all our posts using the Harvard Referencing system or summat?! Fallacy fallacy fucking fallacy!!!!!!!! This is an internet chat site! We express on it opinions! We are but mere mortals who aren't experts on anything! Everything everyone says on here is a fucking fallacy you muppet if it is our opinions! Why the hell should we only have an opinion that can be backed up by the same opinion as an "expert"?! Would it really hurt you so much to come up with your own thoughts every now and again instead of loitering round threads waiting for the perfect opertunity to proundly proclaim that stupid fucking website you post up in every thread you take part in and announce: "This, people, is a fallacy!" Get a life mate!

Emotional little chap ain't he.

You just don't like being wrong.

I post plenty of opinion on here, I quite realize that it's impossible for people to back up every single thing they write. The only problem, of course, is when they try to pass that opinion off as fact, or try to pass of fallacious logic as sound (i.e. by building an entire argument based on an unsubstantiated opinion - like the Creationists)...

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Wow... i cant beelive i havent posted in reply to Fuzzy's yankee ass racist and brainwashed remarks yet!

Do you actually have an education Fuzzy??? HAHAAHAHh

sad little american

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V