quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Ambient Orb: Incedentally, reading Hydarnes' initial arguements over the justification for studio produced singers sounds like he's pro-Ashley Simpson.

Is this supposed to be an attempt at answering my question to starglider?

Yes, I just adore ashley simpson.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Please just answer my question before taking the quick exit .

The Orb are mostly ambient, yes. They have done some tunes (Little Fluffy Clouds, for one) which seem to stray from that format.

Now answer my question.

quote:

Originally posted by starglider The Orb are mostly ambient, yes. They have done some tunes (Little Fluffy Clouds, for one) which seem to stray from that format. Now answer my question.

If this is the case, could you please explain why it is a misdemeanor to mention "ambient trance" under the broad title of "ambient", but perfectly accepted to menton Ambient House in this context? You do realize that The Orb is AMBIENT HOUSE, not strictly ambient, don't you? If I'm not mistaken, this is quite a double-standard on your part, and a most intriguing one at that.

Yes, I have heard some of the artists (albeit not all of them) that you mentioned.

Perhaps, but whereas The Orb has also done ambient, the artists you listed haven't. S-J was talking about pure ambient music, not hybrids. The Orb qualifies.

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Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Perhaps, but whereas The Orb has also done ambient, the artists you listed haven't. S-J was talking about pure ambient music, not hybrids. The Orb qualifies.

Again, you're wrong. I provided Enya, who clearly makes some ambient tunes, your false statement nonetheless. You're obviously trying to find loopholes and it's making you look pretty silly.

I've never heard The Orb's strictly ambient songs. Could you list them for me?

The problem with your argument is, the songs you originally posted aren't even ambient trance. There's a reason I referred to them as "what may be ambient trance". It wasn't evasion because I had no argument. It was simply sidestepping an issue I felt wasn't relevant. But if you must...

Ambient trance is essentially ambient with a trance beat. "Chillout" mixes of trance tunes don't qualify. So whether or not you classify ambient trance or ambient house under ambient or under their respective genres isn't even important.

Sure:


Track List:
1. Valley
2. Plateau
3. Oxbow Lakes
4. Montagne D'or (Der Gute Berg)
5. White River Junction
6. Occidental
7. Slug Dub


Track List:
1. Pomme Fritz (Meat 'n' Veg)
2. More Gills Less Fishcakes
3. We're Pastie To Be Grill You
4. Bang'er 'N Chips
5. Alles Ist Schoen
6. His Immortal Logness

Others:
Towers Of Dub
Oobe


By the way, I fully agree that some of Enya's music is ambient, and will often argue as such. The tune Bodaecia (as well as a great deal on The Celts) is a perfect example. Just because her typical music doesn't appeal to the same crowd doesn't make it an entirely different genre, but because most of her releases are New Age, she get's labeled as such.

However, the main topic at hand was the trance producers you listed that have done a couple ambient tracks as well, not New Age artists. You listed a few trance producers that are almost predominantely trance (or euro trying to pass itself off as trance) but making a couple ambient tracks will not deter from the fact that most of the material they've done is trance, thus they will get branded as trance almost all the time. Oliver Lieb, for example, has done a fair bit of ambient (heck, the L.S.G. Into Deep album is pretty much an all ambient affair) but because most of his material is trance, he gets branded as a trance producer.

Similarily, because The Orb has done a fair bit more ambient than anything else, Dr. Patterson will get labeled an ambient producer more often than not.

___________________
Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!

quote:

Originally posted by starglider The problem with your argument is, the songs you originally posted aren't even ambient trance. There's a reason I referred to them as "what may be ambient trance". It wasn't evasion because I had no argument. It was simply sidestepping an issue I felt wasn't relevant. But if you must...

Your arguments (or lack thereof) are deteriorating by the minute. Now you have the effronterry to tell me that the clearly "AMBIENT TRANCE" songs I mentioned are not ambient trance at all? Again, I didn't call them ambient, I'm going by official standards. Why do you feel such a need to keep mutating your position?

quote:

Ambient trance is essentially ambient with a trance beat.

Umm..You're quite wrong. Ambient trance is substantially synthesizers with no trance beat whatsoever. It can have a small, chillout beat, but this does not define ambient trance. There is plenty that contains no dance percussion whatsoever (Thrillseeker's remix of Saltwater, for example)

quote:

"Chillout" mixes of trance tunes don't qualify.

Chillout is usually a slowed down beat, not ambient, although it can contain ambient elements.

quote:

So whether or not you classify ambient trance or ambient house under ambient or under their respective genres isn't even important.

Well, if this isn't a contention, then perhaps I missed what WAS your point in trying to "straighten me out"?

quote:

However, the main topic at hand was the trance producers you listed that have done a couple ambient tracks as well, not New Age artists. You listed a few trance producers that are almost predominantely trance (or euro trying to pass itself off as trance) but making a couple ambient tracks will not deter from the fact that most of the material they've done is trance, thus they will get branded as trance almost all the time. Oliver Lieb, for example, has done a fair bit of ambient (heck, the L.S.G. Into Deep album is pretty much an all ambient affair) but because most of his material is trance, he gets branded as a trance producer.

But if I remember correctly system J asked me to provide him with some ambient songs, not artists. (and again, I did misunderstand him)

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes But if I remember correctly system J asked me to provide him with some ambient songs, not artists. (and again, I did misunderstand him)

Ah, who can remember anyways, what with these topics getting as derailed as they do.

___________________
Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Umm..You're quite wrong. Ambient trance is substantially synthesizers with no trance beat whatsoever. It can have a small, chillout beat, but this does not define ambient trance. There is plenty that contains no dance percussion whatsoever (Thrillseeker's remix of Saltwater, for example)

On what basis do you make this claim?

think it might help if you both provide some sources as to how you are defining 'ambient'...cuz if it's just a subjective argument of what one person thinks is ambient and another doesn't....well...this is going to go on forever.

made for one helluva interesting read though. i know shit-all about ambient so i'm not going to comment on that...but one piece of advice Hydarnes...it seems everytime you are defending yourself, you find the need to use bigger words...which aren't used quite correctly. case in point...

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Ambient trance is substantially synthesizers with no trance beat whatsoever.

think you mean to use the word essentially or basically or something....or else you should've said, "ambient trance is substantially made from synthesizers..." this may be why a lot of people are misunderstanding you...keep your arguments simple man regardless of that tho...that still doesn't really define what ambient or ambient trance is. a lot of music these days are synthesized...so not having a beat doesn't classify it as ambient in my opinion. but again, i dun listen to much ambient so wat do i know?

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