quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've read your shlock time and again, and it didn't cut any mustard then either.

Sure it did, otherwise you'd have a worthy reply. You haven't.

You've probably forgotten what those arguments are.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yes. Because fun music can never be good, right?

Fun music is good all the time. Eurodance anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Bollocks, Ish, pure bollocks.

Prove it. I see you mocking. I don't see you supporting any of your refutations.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And there are shit epic trance tracks, and there are fucking outstanding ones.

like?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J So give this obstinate bias against EIGHT YEARS OF MUSIC a rest, because it's neither big nor very clever.

I wasn't aware I was trying to be clever. I've only ever been honest towards the music I love as much as I love my own life.

The least it can do is return the favour.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur I wasn't aware I was trying to be clever. I've only ever been honest towards the music I love as much as I love my own life. The least it can do is return the favour.

rate my attempt at it then

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

Keep in mind, J, that any worthy argument you can possibly mount is swiftly derailed by the inevitable arrival of the Crazy Frog trance remix.

You've come a long way, baby.

*chortle*

Y'know, I'm not sure a lot of this genre whoring is worth arguing over. After all, just like 'house' and 'techno' went on to be officially known as Euro ten years later, so will 'trance'. The kids can defend 'trance' all they like. When they're gone and the stalwarts are left, stuff like As The Rush Comes will be officially forever known as what it really is: Euro.

A lot of the old trance style is still played these days, but it just gets called progressive or techno instead because all the euro is taking the trance name for itself instead (and really, did at times even in the very beginning). It takes a number of years for the dust from the Genre Wars to settle before dedicated record keepers can get things sorted.

Heh... I can still remember the days I thought Chris Sheppard was an awesome 'techno' DJ with his Pirate Radio Sessions.



Oh, yeah. Excessive breakdowns/builds played in excess over the course of a set still suck, and forever will suck.

___________________
Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T it's sad that you needed reaffirmation from a Ph.D to 'believe' logical conclusions.

you so have a broken sarcasm detector

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Sure it did, otherwise you'd have a worthy reply. You haven't. You've probably forgotten what those arguments are.

Should I take your word for it, or will you go to the trouble of typing out these hallowed points which will defeat all opposition?

quote:

Fun music is good all the time. Eurodance anyone?

Why are you answering rhetoric sincerely?

quote:

Prove it. I see you mocking. I don't see you supporting any of your refutations.

What? Prove it? Prove that hook driven music can have subtlety and intelligence? I could name a billion hook-driven tracks that are just that. Would you really deny such a point until I'd bothered making such a list?

quote:

like?

Here's the part where I name some tracks, then you go "nope, shit" and raise your fists in triumph, right?

quote:

I wasn't aware I was trying to be clever. I've only ever been honest towards the music I love as much as I love my own life. The least it can do is return the favour.

The only reason you ever make a post on TA on this subject is because you love to flex your ego and virtually beat up all those 6 month ravers who think Rank 1's new track is on par with classical music. You do it for the sheer hell of it. You haven't made a single post here because of love towards music. You've done it out of a love of being loud and controversial.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Why is it that System-J always misses the point in every argument? Straw men don't count, man. Red herrings taste good, but the'll get you nowhere here.

___________________

quote:

Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

Oh my, where did all this come from? Having just read this thread in its entirety, there are a dozen things I want to reply to, but think I'll hold off for the moment and digest before setting to the task.

In terms of the lost art of trance as it was once known, a form of music that was hypnotic and consuming, Ish is pretty much right; his supporting links on research into trancelike states reinforces this. Most people who are in disageement with trance being a different (and, in some ways, lesser) being than it once was do so simply because they haven't experienced traditional trance sets. This isn't so much a product of ignorance as availablity; such material is simply tough to find. It's actually a little comic to see people attempting to compare their experience with today's epic trance versus description of traditional trance; they don't compare. Nearly all of today's trance isn't designed at all like trance was in the first half of the nineties.

The other thing I'll say for now is that while it is tragic that 'real' trance has had its title hijacked by a different direction of music than what the roots of that term denote, that's hardly grounds for deriding today's 'trance' as inferior in some absolute sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Y'know, I'm not sure a lot of this genre whoring is worth arguing over. After all, just like 'house' and 'techno' went on to be officially known as Euro ten years later, so will 'trance'. The kids can defend 'trance' all they like. When they're gone and the stalwarts are left, stuff like As The Rush Comes will be officially forever known as what it really is: Euro. A lot of the old trance style is still played these days, but it just gets called progressive or techno instead because all the euro is taking the trance name for itself instead (and really, did at times even in the very beginning). It takes a number of years for the dust from the Genre Wars to settle before dedicated record keepers can get things sorted.

Yeah, so much of what's being argued is simply confusion of semantics. People would save a lot of wasted breath if the terminology reflected the content. Carry-over of the term 'trance' to today's use of that label will of course be in conflict with the sort of stuff that Sven Vath pushed over ten years ago.

I'll have more to say on this later in the day, perhaps.

Doesn't Age of Love - Age of Love have a breakdown? The breakdown actually gets on my nerves in that song - the part before the breakdown is brilliant - very trancy - then the breakdown spoils it

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Should I take your word for it, or will you go to the trouble of typing out these hallowed points which will defeat all opposition?

Oh hell no. I'm a lazy sod, remember. Nothing is worth typing out more than once.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Why are you answering rhetoric sincerely?

Because that's all you got to work with.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What? Prove it? Prove that hook driven music can have subtlety and intelligence? I could name a billion hook-driven tracks that are just that. Would you really deny such a point until I'd bothered making such a list?

Yup.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Here's the part where I name some tracks, then you go "nope, shit" and raise your fists in triumph, right?

Forcing you to redefine what a hook-driven track is, and then the subtlety and intelligence inherent within, so that it can confirm to your self-assertion.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The only reason you ever make a post on TA on this subject is because you love to flex your ego

Not true. I have a website for that.

This is just for shits n giggles. The fact that Rank 1's newest track reaches the top of the charts despite anything I can, say or do proves just how ineffectual I really am.

But ohhhhh...you should see the emails from the punters claiming otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Oh hell no. I'm a lazy sod, remember. Nothing is worth typing out more than once.

Well don't use arguments you can't be bothered to regurgitate. Hey, I have this tungsten cored motherfucker of an argument that beats anything you've said and ever will say. I ain't gonna enlighten you as to what it is though.

quote:

Because that's all you got to work with.

Sigh. Your answer proved my very point, although it's concievable that you either missed it or played dumb to wind me up. Either way it's a .38 through your foot.

quote:

Yup.

Jam & Spoon - Stella
Underworld - Dark & Long (Dark Train)
Paul Van Dyk - Forbidden Fruit (BT & PVD's Fruit of Love Mix)

Here's three to start you on. I deliberately chose three pre-1996 tracks as an example here. Can you see that big lights of the train of argument coming towards you? You wouldn't give these tracks the time of day if they'd been released post 1996. Nevertheless, they're driven by hooks, and they aren't stupid, pop or whatever else.

In fact, it doesn't matter if they're even trance, let alone what year they were released. Any song from any genre. Whether it's Rob Dougan's "Clubbed to Death", Orbital's "The Box" or The Verve's "Bitter Sweet Symphony". Being hook driven does not mean that a track has no merit. And you fucking know this! So how the hell can you argue otherwise? "The trance from way back didn't have hooks... well some did but we'll ignore those" (lit: it's trying to be something it's not).

Oh who cares? What an utterly stupid argument. You know this already, and you know perfectly well I'm right, but it won't stop you generalising all trance as mega-anthems then stamping down with your size 12 hate boots.

quote:

Forcing you to redefine what a hook-driven track is, and then the subtlety and intelligence inherent within, so that it can confirm to your self-assertion.

What? The quote was "there are plenty of outstanding epic trance tracks", something which is pretty much a matter of opinion. As with anything. My point is that the only opinion that is incorrect is the biased opinion, because it is a pre-determined response no matter what track I put under your nose. Ergo you saying "it's shit" doesn't alter anything.

quote:

Not true. I have a website for that. This is just for shits n giggles. The fact that Rank 1's newest track reaches the top of the charts despite anything I can, say or do proves just how ineffectual I really am.

I'd love to know the difference between what you're doing here and what you do on your site.

EDIT: Why does it filter motherfucker but not ******?

EDIT 2: Ah. It does.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/