oh and it leads to shit like this ... girls getting kicked out , beaten to leave the stadiums...women aren't allowed to attend soccer games ... something as trivial (compared to many other disadvantages that women bear vs. men )

crazier things: (for those who don't know)
women aren't allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia
arent allowed to file for divorce
must bear the fact that their husband is sexing another wife of his next door ... in fact in the other room
oh and something called the "veil" ... to cover themselves in the heat of summer time... all sweaty and hot ... just to avoid a strangers dirty thoughts ...
and not just optional in many countries, but MANDATORY . even for for foreigners.

some may say, its not the religion, but the way the government imposes islamic laws that are outdated on its peaople ...
well, i guess i just answered myself

some may say, theres less raping that way. its a way to respect wome.
RESPECT ?
how is that repecting a lady !?
less rape crimes ?
hahahha u gotta be kidding me.

shame

quote:

Originally posted by Misanthrope Not this shit again.

what else other then shit do you expect from diabolic lol

he's a shit disturber

btw mr intelligent diablic you should've siad 12 morans tried to kidnap a girl, but that requires a brain doesn't it


on the side note how much I'd love to be in a religion free world

___________________
Great Music Stations: 2HP.ca Radio & etn.fm

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima For the pictures of the hotels and buildings: Claiming that Islam and Muslims are not backwards thinking because they are building really expensive buildings? Wow, way to look forward. The way a society exploits and uses money is in no way reflective of their culture. And rich places like Dubai and the UAE are hardly representative of the rest of the middle-eastern world. Posting a bunch of pics of the few places on earth that can afford to do something like this because they sell oil to the REST of the world. I don't understand what that has got to do with religious beliefs?

NOTHING i was just dispelling myths that all of the middle east is a sand dune with mud huts.

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima Couple of quotes I a little offensive: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believed in Allah" In reference of non-Islamists "Those who inclur the wrath of Allah" I simply cannot agree with any religions writings with messages such as the above, no matter which religion it seems to be. Further, it seems that a religion that so strongly views women as beasts is a little outdated...but it won't be changed, because the weak, dependant minds of the masses would not be easy to convert to a new way of thinking, a way that conflicts with the preset conventions of the last thousand years.... I don't want to insult anyone by my opinions, I just want to express them here, and see what others think...

First of all those quotes are NOT from the quran. There from ignorant people who are abusing there religion.
Secondly, women are not viewed as beasts... thats just stupid. Women are to be treated equally and with respect. That is what me and 90% of muslims are taught. The other 10% is unfortunantely raised by tribes in remote villages that have nomadic views and THIS 10% unfortunantely spawn the terrorists. Every religion has them, (christians with the KKK).

Last but not least islam has taught me to ALWAYS RESPECT OTHERS RELIGIONS. I have NEVER heard otherwise from any religious leaders that i have met. I look at christianity, hinduism, etc. with the same respect as i do with my own.
Sure our religion says we are the right religion but frankly i dont see any other religion that doesnt.

What most people dont know is that islam and the quran teach us that we should respect the religions of the 5 books. One being the quran (islam), bible (christianity), Torah (Judiasm), and i cant remember the other 3, two are lost religions (extinct).

quote:

Originally posted by TRANCEEEE i was born a muslim ... however, living abroad or i guess being realistic and using logic (what i think is logic) mede me hate religion and especially islam for its portrayal of violence and "brainlessness" i understand that islam does promote peace at times ... AT TIMES ... there are many instances in the history of isalm that makes you think otherwise. the koran calls for jihad on those who oppose Islam ... " the kafer" in other words ... islam is a pure example of "othering" meaning, if your not muslim, you're different. Men and women are not equal : ok I've read the book before, im not just quoting one source, Ive seen it in ALLL the different copies that are out there ... in Farsi, Arabic , english -Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." 2:228 -A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282 -Marry of the women two, or three, or four. 4:3 -Males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11 -Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death -You may not forcibly inherit women, unless they flagrantly lewd. 4:19 -Instructions for exchanging wives 4:20 -You can't have married women, unless they are captives. 4:24 -Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them. 4:34 -Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43 -Women are feeble and are unable to devise a plan. 4:98 -They invoke in his (Allah's) stead only females. 4:117 -A man cannot treat his wives fairly. 4:129 -"Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females." 4:176 -A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6 -Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31 WOW ... i mean, im not insulting the religion ... i respect peoples beliefs , but this is the 21st cent. -When it's time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can't find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. 5:6 the act is called ghosl ... yeh, dirt could really purify you ... BRUTAL

Trancee let me start off saying you have to be the most ignorant muslim in the world. I hope you convert to athiesim because NO religion deserves your twisted sad skewed visions of religion.

The quran is written in old arabic and CAN NEVER be properly translated in to any language. TRANSLATIONS ARE ONLY INTERRPERATIONS.

What you fail to mention with the multiple wives rule is that you may only marry more wives if and ONLY IF the first/second/third etc wife AGREES TO IT. You cant just marry at will you tool. Then On top of that YOU MUST TREAT EACH WIFE EQUALLY meaning no favourites no disposing, no giving money to one wife and not the others.

The no praying if you touched women is just horrible translation. What it means is you cannot have pray if you have had intercourse with a women. All muslims wash and cleanse them selves before each prayer. How can you be clean when you just had sex with a women?

Dirt is not preferred but can be used when water is not available (hmm i wonder where i could find water in the desert).

The veil is only recommended. In the end it is the WOMENS choice whether to wear it. But if you do choose to wear it then you have to follow the rules of only revealing your self to your husband/family.

Im so sick of this post. You are trully the most ignorant person i have ever come across. You give HUMANITY a bad name.

Your entire Post is filled with a horrible interperations of the quran that are clearly slandered and skewed to show your view.

quote:

Originally posted by Homer_SS NOTHING i was just dispelling myths that all of the middle east is a sand dune with mud huts.

Those uninformed enought to believe that invalidate their own opinions with their stupidity.

quote:

Last but not least islam has taught me to ALWAYS RESPECT OTHERS RELIGIONS. I have NEVER heard otherwise from any religious leaders that i have met. I look at christianity, hinduism, etc. with the same respect as i do with my own. Sure our religion says we are the right religion but frankly i dont see any other religion that doesnt. What most people dont know is that islam and the quran teach us that we should respect the religions of the 5 books. One being the quran (islam), bible (christianity), Torah (Judiasm), and i cant remember the other 3, two are lost religions (extinct).

True enough, and believe me your rebuke is really not neccessary. I do not personally have any problems with Islam. I grew up in a place where childred from catholics, orthotox, and muslims all played together, and we were all neighbours and friends. I woke up every morning as a child to the sound of morning prayers (to those in countries that have this, you'll know what I mean, when you hear the priest (is that applicable to muslims) sings every morning)

However, it is unfortunate that in the western world, acts of terrorism have been closely linked to Islam, simply because those few radicals have used it and yelled for it very loudly while commiting their crimes. As such, I only think that Islam as a whole should stomp out the radical element of its populace, be it the few protesters, or the clerics urging this behaiviour, and they should do it with merciless force and intolerance. Unfortunately, its probably the only way the rest of the world will be able to dispell this association between Islam and terrorism. Is it fair? well, there are things in this world happening every day, and fair has nothing to do with them. Since this radical element ofthe religion has spawned such a strongly evident backlash, so should their own reaction to this element be as strong, if their wishes are to break the stereotypical view of their countries/cultures/religions.

quote:

Originally posted by Homer_SS The quran is written in old arabic and CAN NEVER be properly translated in to any language. TRANSLATIONS ARE ONLY INTERRPERATIONS.

One thing I wanted to ask was, if interpretations they are, how come they have been interpreted in such a radical fashion? Namely in reference to Jihad. Where is the justification in that?

quote:

Originally posted by Homer_SS Trancee let me start off saying you have to be the most ignorant muslim in the world. . . . The quran is written in old arabic and CAN NEVER be properly translated in to any language. TRANSLATIONS ARE ONLY INTERRPERATIONS. . . Your entire Post is filled with a horrible interperations of the quran that are clearly slandered and skewed to show your view.

What makes your interpretation any better? Who decides which injterpretation is right?

TRANCEEE has stated some very clear references. The bible and other religious good books were also written in even older languages than ancient arabic, so that's no arguement.

You insult a fellow muslim because he doesn't agree with you. There are many arabs and muslims that don't agree with you, and feel you are as ignorant as you believe TRANCEEE is. Sunnis and Shiites don't even agree with each other.

Maybe that's the problem... too many interpretations, and it's the power hungry leaders that decide whose interpretation is right.

___________________

Short time TA, Long time Guver, Good time giver.

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima Those uninformed enought to believe that invalidate their own opinions with their stupidity. True enough, and believe me your rebuke is really not neccessary. I do not personally have any problems with Islam. I grew up in a place where childred from catholics, orthotox, and muslims all played together, and we were all neighbours and friends. I woke up every morning as a child to the sound of morning prayers (to those in countries that have this, you'll know what I mean, when you hear the priest (is that applicable to muslims) sings every morning) However, it is unfortunate that in the western world, acts of terrorism have been closely linked to Islam, simply because those few radicals have used it and yelled for it very loudly while commiting their crimes. As such, I only think that Islam as a whole should stomp out the radical element of its populace, be it the few protesters, or the clerics urging this behaiviour, and they should do it with merciless force and intolerance. Unfortunately, its probably the only way the rest of the world will be able to dispell this association between Islam and terrorism. Is it fair? well, there are things in this world happening every day, and fair has nothing to do with them. Since this radical element ofthe religion has spawned such a strongly evident backlash, so should their own reaction to this element be as strong, if their wishes are to break the stereotypical view of their countries/cultures/religions.

I totally agree with everything your saying. Unfortunantly for the muslim population extremists are born in the very small and remote tribal villages that live away from civilization. They live in there own skewed little world. These places are ruled by war lords and tribes. Its once these people reach civilization that things start to get worse. They seek out individuals that are usually angry at the west, and want revenge, they seek out mentally disturbed people and people who can be easily manipulated and turn them into the bombers and extremists you see in the media. Its a shame this all happens in third world countries. Were the gov't's are squandering away the countries money.

What doesn't help is that the media likes to portray the very small and insignificant population (1% of islam) that likes to blow them selves up in the name of what they think is islam.

I know terrorists sell and theres nothing that i can do about it. But what really ticks me off is recently a huge surge of anti islamic posters have popped up throughout the interenet and find its appropriate to post there skewed oppinions as facts. Much like our friend here Trancee.

What further enrages me is that people find it ok to throw around racist words such as towel/diaper heads or camel jockeys and what not, but as soon drops the n word or god forbid says something about jews its the holocaust and slave trade all over again. No im not saying its ok to talk about jews and blacks. All races should be treated with respect. Thank god none of these idiots have found there way over here at TA. I loved the diversity of people here that can come together through the common ground of music. But this thread has awakened alot of strong emotions/oppinions of alot people.

On that note id also vote for this thread to be closed. In my experience i have never seen threads like this end with a conclusion or on any positive tone.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie What makes your interpretation any better? Who decides which injterpretation is right? TRANCEEE has stated some very clear references. The bible and other religious good books were also written in even older languages than ancient arabic, so that's no arguement. You insult a fellow muslim because he doesn't agree with you. There are many arabs and muslims that don't agree with you, and feel you are as ignorant as you believe TRANCEEE is. Sunnis and Shiites don't even agree with each other. Maybe that's the problem... too many interpretations, and it's the power hungry leaders that decide whose interpretation is right.

I agree my words are also interperations but his quotes are clearly skewed and biased. He has pretty much taken the text, put it into his own biased words. Theres a difference between Full Round FAIR in terperations and slandering, biasing, and quoting only select words.

If you actually do look those references up youll see clearly that he is picking at very specific text while ignoring the rest of the sentence.

Yes sunnis and shites dont agree with each other but the same can be said about christians, catholics, protesants etc. If you travel back in time to the same maturity islam is now but to christianity youll find the same things that are happening. Protesants killing catholics vice versa, killing in the name of god.

Your extremists came 200-400 years ago... because islam is a younger religion were getting our extremists now.

I know thats no excuse but it could be an explaination.