What we know now is that the US-led invasion brought out a civil war which was probobly bound to happen if saddam died-off.

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"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

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Last edited by Purple on Mar-19-2006 at 09:17

The logic that Vlad is using to justify Israel's stand on Palestine is like USA people telling black people to move out.

'The black are not from here, they dont belong here if you look back at their history, they should go back and fight for there land in Africa. We wont give them a shit cos they will keep on asking for more.'

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You know, I think the war in Iraq is tragic in a very poetic sense. I don't tend to view it as a mistake because, although in the sense of individual decisions made it most certainly is, the war as a phenomenon or an analogous set of circumstances was an inevitable consequence of the present direction of American society.

The human cost of this phenomenon is something we should always bear in mind, but I think that seeing these events in a detached macrohistorical sense is also very important. Both Iraqi and American society have been, are, and will continue to be in a state of continuous transformation, and this war is part of that transformation. It would be premature to guess as to the long-term effects that it will have on either society, and therefore it is difficult to yet categorize it in any sort of valuational sense.

Like many adverse situations, this war offers many opportunities for personal and collective growth to all parties involved. I believe that we should endeavor to take advantage of as many of these opportunities as possible, both for our own sakes, and for the honor of those who lost their lives in the creation of these opportunities. In order to do this, we must examine the situation from a variety of perspectives, some of which may not be particularly comfortable for us.

Striking, I think, is the irony of the philosophy behind our continued presence in Iraq. We now purport to do good by bringing "democracy" to Iraq - but the means by which we do this and the sociopolitical forces that brought about this siutation seem to call into question the merit of this system that we seek to impose. After all, if a society as supposedly enlightened and educated as ours could be so short-sighted as to elect a President like George W. Bush, then this does not seem to bode well for the prospects of a similar system in a nation which all signs seem to indicate is high on passion but short on cogent political philosophy.

Perhaps for now, rather than reflecting upon the war valuationally, we ought to focus on some of the elements of our society which allowed this situation to arise in the first place, starting with:

• Highly superficial attitudes, including an over-emphasis on rhetoric instead of substantive action, and generality instead of the specific case.
  
• Insufficient education of the general populace with regards to critical political and philosophical thought.
  
• Gross oversimplification of the diversity of political philosophies (left/right) with institutional support (two-party system.)
  
• The rapid diffusion of responsibility both on the political stage and in everyday life.
  
• Excessive focus on immediate consequences versus long-term consequences (i.e. have you seen our budget?)
  

quote:

Iraq in civil war, says former PM Iraq is in the middle of civil war, the country's former interim prime minister Iyad Allawi has told the BBC. He said Iraq had not got to the point of no return, but if it fell apart sectarianism would spread abroad. The UK and US have repeatedly denied Iraq is facing a civil war, but Mr Allawi suggested there was no other way to describe the sectarian violence. Analysts say Mr Allawi's comments are part of political manoeuvring as talks continue over creation of a government. UK Defence Secretary John Reid insisted that the terrorists were failing to drive Iraq into civil war. Speaking to British troops in Basra, he said he thought the political and religious leaders had shown great restraint. Those trying to turn one community on another were not succeeding, he added. But there were reports of a mortar shell exploding in the southern city of Karbala as Shias gathered for one of the biggest events of their religious calendar. Police said there were no casualties. The US-led Operation Swarmer, against insurgents and foreign fighters near Samarra, is now into its fourth day. 'No troop withdrawals' There has been a cycle of sectarian reprisals and revenge killings between Sunnis and Shias. The destruction of the Shia shrine at Samarra on 22 February made some observers wonder if the country was heading towards civil conflict. The BBC News website's world affairs correspondent Paul Reynolds says the unrest is threatening hopes among the US and its allies for substantial troop withdrawals in the coming months. And US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that withdrawing US troops would be the modern day equivalent of handing post-war Germany back to the Nazis, and that "terrorists" would fill the vacuum. 'Sectarianism will spread' Mr Allawi heads the Iraqi National List, a secular nationalist alliance made up of Sunnis and Shias. Speaking on BBC TV's Sunday AM programme, he said it would be a mistake to underplay Iraq's problems, although the country was "edging towards" a political deal. He said he had warned against creating a vacuum in the country and raised concerns about the insurgents and the dismantling of the military. "It is unfortunate that we are in civil war. We are losing each day as an average 50 to 60 people throughout the country, if not more. "If this is not civil war, then God knows what civil war is." Mr Allawi added that a national unity government may not be "an immediate solution" to the country's problems. Iraq is moving towards the "point of no return", he said, when the country would fragment. "It will not only fall apart but sectarianism will spread throughout the region, and even Europe and the US will not be spared the violence that results...," he said. There has been no official reaction so far to Mr Allawi's comments, but the general view of analysts and other Iraqi factions is that this is political manoeuvring by the former prime minister. The BBC's Andrew North in Baghdad says that, although involved, his party list is not one of the key groups in the talks. And one politician said he wanted to ensure that he is still being seen as a major player.

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A civil war is perfect, let them kill themselves and bring back the soldiers.

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/SARCASM.

quote:

Originally posted by Coup Vlad wins. Flawless victory.

Don't you all see what is really happening?!?!!?

all of us are obviously just players with insanely big A.I in a pc
war-game of a higher being with super computers

we should have never gone in, and it seems inevitable that there will be a civil war. saddam was a nuetralized threat. his bark was way louder than his bite. he threatened, "the mother of all battles" with his republican gaurds, but instead they surrendered without barely a fight.

we've invested billions of dollars over there, so i think its a little too late to just back out now.

my father is going to iraq in june for a year. that really sucks.

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quote:

Originally posted by THE_Chris None of this crap would be happening if -> 2) America & Britain just BOUGHT THE OIL from the Middle East, rather than trying to CONTROL it. 3) America would stop sticking its nose in everywhere.

best points ever, nothing more needs to be said.

america needs to stop thinking it is the fucking "Defender of Freedom For The Entire Goddamn Globe,".. because as someone stated earlier in this thread: not everyone wants democracy.

get our troops the fuck out.. you're only causing more problems by being there. there are so many issues in America that need fixing before we go gallavanting around the fucking world trying to fix everyone elses'.

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You Can't Spell Hemorrhoids Without Emo. says:
i drank 14 bottles of it at my student union and dropkicked the projector image of a football manager that i thought was the real football manager. Went right through the screen.
.: Aureus :. says:
that is quite possibly the coolest fucking thing i have heard in my entire life

quote:

Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: my father is going to iraq in june for a year. that really sucks.

Man that sucks, looking at how its escalating; violence will peak this year I guess.

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