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Originally posted by venomX Illuminate us then with your insights on what lesson we can draw from Richard's poor delivery of a lamely crafter comeback?

His use of petty insults was in bad taste, but that is something that is quite relative to current societal considerations. I didn't find it particularily funny, in fact, I find it quite sad because I pity him.

Not trying to be condescending, but let's reevaluate the meaning behind the word 'pity' for just a moment (I swear this has pertinence to what I am saying):

pity- "sympathetic or kindly sorrow evoked by the suffering, distress, or misfortune of another, often leading one to give relief or aid or to show mercy."

Some of you are outright denying that you have any prejudice whatsoever? That you are completely without predisposition towards people's attitudes or how they look? Get off your high horse and come back down to the real world where racism and bigotry affect people every day and just because you don't "believe in it" will not save you from being a target of it.

Tensions are high in our world, it's to be expected with high commute and business and pressure and capitalistic promises and the threat of death at every corner prescribed to us through a little black box in our living room that uses dots of light to show us the way to God. when I saw Richards on stage, I felt pity for the man who goes on stage and feels the pressure on his job, on his livelihood, having to adapt to what entertains a room full of people who have spawned from a culture devoid of culture. I mean, what is funny anymore? What is sick, what is sad? Is it really a decision? Or have we all just been conditioned for learned responses?

Have any of you been on a stage before in a room full of people, with your reputation and livelihood on the line, expected to please and to entertain, and to funnel the emotion of a culture devoid of reasonable sensitivities and reason?

He kept saying the word, over and over, because he knew it had meaning. And that is what I pity him for - because in a moment of desperation, he resorted to something he KNEW was base and immoral, but it was the only way he felt he could expresshimself, and in doing so, he so reflected the tensions and the latent feelings and thoughts of every stupid, idiotic, racist occurence that our "culture" could conceive of. Can none of you see yourselves reacting in the same way, when the pressure is just too much to handle? Maybe you would break down and cry, maybe you would do something differently, whatever - but the point is that it was too much for this man, and I can empathize with how broken up he is about it. If you don't know what I am talking about, I bet you will, when that low day comes.

It has very little to do with how good his "comeback" was - this has little to do with the intricacies of social humour as much as it has to do with people and the reality of how they consider one another. If you can't learn from how Richards acted and maybe look in yourself for these prejudices, then I think maybe you'd better open your eyes a little more.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I do agree with your assessment of recent world history - when I think of powerful dictators and tyrants or other people whom I would say "make trouble for the world"(though I do not necessarily think this linear) I think of all white guys - Hitler, Stalin, Bush(lawls?).

I'll counter that with people like pablo noriega, charles taylor, Omar el-Bashir, pol pot, and the taliban.

Man, "White" people are just as much of a problem as any other human. This racial bullshit makes no sense, and can't be used to create a valid argument about the what goes on with worlds current events or general history. Many people say that white people rule the world makes and that makes me laugh. OPEC has the whole world by the balls, which is comprised of mostly arab countries.

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"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

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Originally posted by Marc Summers I'll counter that with people like pablo noriega, charles taylor, Omar el-Bashir, pol pot, and the taliban.

Yeah, and that is why I stressed that my viewpoint was one that has been influenced by and considers primarily western affairs.

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Man, "White" people are just as much of a problem as any other human. This racial bullshit makes no sense, and can't be used to create a valid argument about the what goes on with worlds current events or general history. Many people say that white people rule the world makes and that makes me laugh. OPEC has the whole world by the balls, which is comprised of mostly arab countries.

I agree. Problems are in humans, not in "this race" or "that race" - what we do and think affects people everywhere; whether we see it or not, whether we want it to or not.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

im racist against humans

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www.illysounds.com

I usually only hear dumb blonde chicks say things like that

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Originally posted by venomX You would agree that is not to be taken lightly in all contexts though. I agree that sometimes it is necessary to let things slide to diminish the potential for conflict, as Richards should have done with the heckling, but when someone insinuates that in other times he would've had you lynched for bothering him while he speaks, I don't agree that that is to be taken lightly. Even when given the context it could be interpreted as being a "joke".

The entire concept of race is a joke as far as I'm concerned. It's not as if there's any objective basis for it.

If someone wants to verbally attack someone based on some imaginary concept of these "racial groups," then they should go right ahead as far as I'm concerned. Both the "racist" and those who take it seriously will both be the object of my ridicule, and rightfully so. You might as well be working yourselves into a furor over some other cultural construct with no basis in reality, like the tooth fairy.

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Originally posted by Arbiter The entire concept of race is a joke as far as I'm concerned. It's not as if there's any objective basis for it. If someone wants to verbally attack someone based on some imaginary concept of these "racial groups," then they should go right ahead as far as I'm concerned. Both the "racist" and those who take it seriously will both be the object of my ridicule, and rightfully so. You might as well be working yourselves into a furor over some other cultural construct with no basis in reality, like the tooth fairy.

I agree with this when arguing it a this level, but I mean seriously, even if it is a made up construct the ill intent on part of Richard's is still there. Even if it is made up, he still used it in a non acceptable way. He was effectively deviating from what is socially acceptable, and now as a consequence he will be ostracized. It's how society works and while I understand what you and Halcyon are saying, and for the most, I agree with it, we have social norms and unless we're planning on changing them any time soon we need to work with them when evaluating situations such as this.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by venomX I agree with this when arguing it a this level, but I mean seriously, even if it is a made up construct the ill intent on part of Richard's is still there. Even if it is made up, he still used it in a non acceptable way. He was effectively deviating from what is socially acceptable, and now as a consequence he will be ostracized. It's how society works and while I understand what you and Halcyon are saying, and for the most, I agree with it, we have social norms and unless we're planning on changing them any time soon we need to work with them when evaluating situations such as this.

I totally agree with you - he was violating societal standards of conduct and went way too far in his rage. But push it a bit farther - WHY is that such a horrible, immoral thing? Why is this something to hate? Doesn't negative reaction and anger at this sort of thing just breed more of it?

On a social level, what he did was very wrong. On a moral level, he lost his cool and verbally assaulted someone (even if he was reciprocating what they did to him - don't we learn as children not to retaliate against one another in such a fashion?), using very irrelevant descriptors to attempt to hurt his opponent, a moment of ignorance on his part. It was wrong of him on many levels, and to a degree, he deserves what is being wrought upon him, though by the interview afterwards, I think he is bringing himself through some very deep, personal turmoil, and I doubt his career will ever recover from something like this.

And this is the lesson I was describing before: picture yourself in his place, try and understand the world and what has happened through someone else's place in it, imagine that, given the unreasonable circumstances of the situation, your actions and words have violated something that people hold sacred - I think that this very lesson is the strongest opponent to ignorance and racism that exists and if we, as a social species, are ever to grow past it fully, we must have this sense of empathy and be willing to question our "reason" at times as well.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I totally agree with you - he was violating societal standards of conduct and went way too far in his rage. But push it a bit farther - WHY is that such a horrible, immoral thing? Why is this something to hate? Doesn't negative reaction and anger at this sort of thing just breed more of it?

I agree that negative reactions create a cycle that is not easily broken. As to why this particular tirade is immoral? As I've mentioned before, I find using brutal acts of the past as a threat to someone that is related somehow to the group of people that suffered those brutal acts is immoral. I'm aware that the acts are in the past, I'm aware that that person probably didn't have a relative lynched and probably has no connection to any person that was lynched, I'm aware that person has probably never suffered from any physically brutal acts of discrimination, but still the fact that those acts of brutality where committed by people with the mindset Richard's was using is immoral in my books.
One could also argue that Richard's was merely trying to make a "joke" out of the situation and it went terribly wrong. Maybe the words just didn't come out in the right order from his mouth, and it would be a valid argument if he had stopped after the first phrase when he would have had to notice that people were having an aversive reaction to what he was saying. The fact that he continued on his tirade would support more the fact the he has some strong underlaying bias against black people, more than the fact that he's just a horrible comedian who just happened to deliver a badly constructed joke in a catastrophic manner.

Edit: As for the last part of your post, I hold no grudges against him. What he did was inappropriate, but life goes on. He'll get his punishment from society, and hopefully be more careful in the future. I'm not arguing that he is innately a bad person, I am arguing even in the extreme case where the other person might have done something sufficiently wrong to have "merited" a response like this Richard's had plenty of other options and the one he chose is particularly bad.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

to the guy who made the comment about black people walking too slow


i believe that a black man holds the world record for fastest running time you stupid fuck.

running and walking are different things