right but Her Majesty's Royal Navy, even more importantly the concept of her, isn't a minuscule fraction of what it once was.

thats not a material issue, it's an ideological one. and it's a damn shame.


now her submarine force...that you should be proud of.

Oh I'd never dismiss Iran out of hand, they're quite adept at destabilising things on the sly and the people in charge are/where absolutely fanatical. Kind of like the current US administration since WW2 in a lot of respects if you where to compare them, both are reliant on the religious forces in the country to keep them in power, either by elections or consent and they aren't the most reasonable of people when it comes to diplomatic relations.
And the tolerant, moderate majority in both countries tend to be the people with the least effect on their respective societies, to keep them onside you have to keep 'polarising' them to the effect that they at least are pro-government in power.

Several ways you can do that, media manipulation (aka Propaganda), social rewards for supporting, punishment for not supporting and every ones old favourite... national pride.

For now it's a show-trial so to speak, rallying up support.


Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not pro-Iranian!
Indeed, stick me in the same room as some of these misogynistic despots and they'd be being carried out with some fatal injuries.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan *I'll chop it down to size*

Key point is, that at the moment England is certainly not in any position to blow up a country on our own (nuclear force not withstanding) for a few years, still suffering from the downsizing of the 80's and 90's to the point where it's extremely difficult to project the force needed.
Certainly don't think economically England is up to shape either.

Last edited by Lilith on Apr-02-2007 at 10:13

i also heard as late as last month, Blair is set to mothball 44 warships and at that time HMRN will be smaller and less effective than the French

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i also heard as late as last month, Blair is set to mothball 44 warships and at that time HMRN will be smaller and less effective than the French

They're planning to replace a lot of ships with newer ones so it can't be too bad. In all honesty we don't have a massive empire anymore, I would like a big navy but we're not running colonies all over the place so there isn't the need, for a traditional sense though I would like to see a lot more ships.

quote:

Key point is, that at the moment England is certainly not in any position to blow up a country on our own (nuclear force not withstanding) for a few years, still suffering from the downsizing of the 80's and 90's to the point where it's extremely difficult to project the force needed.

You'll always need people on the ground but warfare has changed. With the use of air power, cruise missles etc there isn't the need to send 500,000 odd people charging onto a beach.

I'm totally against the downsizing and mergers for the fact I think you always need a decent size army.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, do you guys really love war and falling for classic FFs that much?

It is disturbing to me that the people who consider themselves the "progressive thinkers" can't "think".

DAAAAAAAAAAMMMMNNN

More military practices more talkings more preperations

WTF

quote:

Britain has sent a written response to the Iranian government regarding the 15 detained sailors and marines, the Foreign Office has said. It follows a letter received by the British Embassy in Tehran from the Iranian government earlier this week. Foreign Minister Margaret Beckett said Britain had responded by diplomatic note to Iran's capture of the naval personnel. "We had a diplomatic note and we have made our response." The two sides were now talking, she said. "We have made our response and we are now beginning to discuss. As you may know it's a holiday period in Iran and it's perhaps not too helpful."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...31/wiran931.xml

For my great astonishment that the Sunday Telegragh
raising the escalation of the crisis
1st. The iranian TV shows that these sailors are well treated
well temperament,...
2nd. How many great doubts and confussions will be reached to
the British people if the iranian TV didnot shows these videos
3th. THE both sides insist on their own positions
4th. So If any doubts about entering the Iranian water
so IT MUST taken As "Openness and understandings Needing Tact Policy"Many matters
are resolved.



STOP TALKING ABOUT WAR

quote:

Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan They're planning to replace a lot of ships with newer ones so it can't be too bad. In all honesty we don't have a massive empire anymore, I would like a big navy but we're not running colonies all over the place so there isn't the need, for a traditional sense though I would like to see a lot more ships. You'll always need people on the ground but warfare has changed. With the use of air power, cruise missles etc there isn't the need to send 500,000 odd people charging onto a beach. I'm totally against the downsizing and mergers for the fact I think you always need a decent size army.

Someone want to come over and explain this to our country???

Actually our current PM (Harper) is actually doing something about our military after several decades of mothballing and ignorance from the previous Liberal Party stranglehold.
Hard to believe that our Navy was once the 4th largest after WWII and now, can't even patrol our own coast (which admittedly is frickin' huge).
*sigh*
/rant

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by M.Johan DAAAAAAAAAAMMMMNNN More military practices more talkings more preperations WTF http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...31/wiran931.xml For my great astonishment that the Sunday Telegragh raising the escalation of the crisis 1st. The iranian TV shows that these sailors are well treated well temperament,... 2nd. How many great doubts and confussions will be reached to the British people if the iranian TV didnot shows these videos 3th. THE both sides insist on their own positions 4th. So If any doubts about entering the Iranian water so IT MUST taken As "Openness and understandings Needing Tact Policy"Many matters are resolved. STOP TALKING ABOUT WAR

Well, if anyone has experience in dealing with foreign negotiations, it should be Britain...especially that region.
Lets hope for the best.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by venomX They're both proven liers. You're preference of believing your side of the story is a clear bias of living in the US. Now the interesting question is, if you have that bias, wouldn't others also have it? And if you can understand this concept, wouldn't you also espouse the belief that this type of intimidation and warmongering doesn't amount to anything else than escalation which will surely be followed by more war, more instability, more hunger and more suffering. Notice that in that list you'll never find anything positive, as with all wars. No war has ever brought any good, only of course the spoils for the victor. And if that is the point, the spoils, why cover it up and pretend you're doing good?

I already said I'm prone not to believe anything from either side. However, for the most part, the West has been pretty quiet on the matter. Yes, we have gotten condemnations and such, and the British were vocal at first. However, Iran has released a new confession, video or press release concerning the sailors or further acts against Iran literally every day. If you say nothing, it's hard to lie, but if you're constantly pushing out more crap to the media, in order to one-up your last release I am "biased" into believing that they *might* be lying.

I'd also argue that wars can bring about good. You can debate "end justifying the means," all you want, but when it means removing a proven, ruthless dictator (ala WWII and Hitler) who without military intervention would have had no problem dominating the entire planet via his agenda, I'd say war does bring about relative good. It should always be a last resort, however when dealing with irrational people, war is sometimes the only means of preventing far worse atrocities than war brings.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono I already said I'm prone not to believe anything from either side. However, for the most part, the West has been pretty quiet on the matter. Yes, we have gotten condemnations and such, and the British were vocal at first. However, Iran has released a new confession, video or press release concerning the sailors or further acts against Iran literally every day. If you say nothing, it's hard to lie, but if you're constantly pushing out more crap to the media, in order to one-up your last release I am "biased" into believing that they *might* be lying. I'd also argue that wars can bring about good. You can debate "end justifying the means," all you want, but when it means removing a proven, ruthless dictator (ala WWII and Hitler) who without military intervention would have had no problem dominating the entire planet via his agenda, I'd say war does bring about relative good. It should always be a last resort, however when dealing with irrational people, war is sometimes the only means of preventing far worse atrocities than war brings.

the best ex. Iraq

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX It is disturbing to me that the people who consider themselves the "progressive thinkers" can't "think".

LOL, that means a lot coming from you, and I've never really considered myself to be a "progressive thinker" but whatever.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo nice obfuscation. it has totally replaced your notion of war into a convenient utopian worldview. you are the prototypical modern liberal. IOW "In order to eliminate discrimination, the modern liberal has opted to become utterly indiscriminate."

Are you still whining about liberals???

The liberals can look at your face, point and say "I TOLD YOU SO"

So stick a carrot up your ass

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V