The world is in a mess right now. Our military is stretched to the breaking point, our currency is going down the drain, and our government is going bankrupt. We don't need a reconciliatory voice. We need a revolutionary one.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt The world is in a mess right now. Our military is stretched to the breaking point, our currency is going down the drain, and our government is going bankrupt. We don't need a reconciliatory voice. We need a revolutionary one.

and what makes you think that Ron Paul is going to fix the world

isn't his entire theme antithetical to anything resembling "world fixing"?

thats the problem with you Paul supporters. youre so self-absorbed you think nothing else matters but what you think. no one knows better for what the country needs than YOU, the 3 percenters.

you want to talk elitism? if what you just said isn't the most elitist bullshit ever said by a presidential nominee supporter, then wtf is?

you think money matters? it doesn't. winning elections it's as simple as message and organization. real election funding is a product of that not the other way around. look at Howard Dean '03. look at Mike Huckabee today.

right now Paul's message, after 12 months, is falling on deaf ears to the total of around 2 million people nationally and he hasn't organized A DAMN THING. his supporters have. and you want him to be the President of the United States?

Last edited by Q5echo on Jan-02-2008 at 10:01

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Originally posted by Q5echo and what makes you think that Ron Paul is going to fix the world isn't his entire theme antithetical to anything resembling "world fixing"?

That's the problem...politicians think they have the ability to 'fix' everything with the heavy hand of government, and they usually end up f*cking things up even worse than they were to begin with. No, Ron Paul is not promising to fix the planet. He knows that is impossible...and the best he can do is restore liberty and get government out of our lives as much as possible. This makes it easier for people to solve their own problems...and when you extend this philosophy to our military, it will save lives and greatly reduce the resentment/hatred of the USA around the world.

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you think money matters? it doesn't.

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right now Paul's message, after 12 months, is falling on deaf ears to the total of around 2 million people nationally and he hasn't organized A DAMN THING. his supporters have. and you want him to be the President of the United States?

I guess we'll see just how deaf those ears are on Jan 8th...and yeah, I think we definitely need a hardcore anti-neocon to reverse some of the damage done by Bush over the past 8 years, and RP is about as hardcore as they come.

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Originally posted by Q5echo thats the problem with you Paul supporters. youre so self-absorbed you think nothing else matters but what you think.

LOL, a self professed NeoCon should never even utter those words. I'm quite impressed by how low you can sink and how blatantly hyproctical you can be. And please don't bother with another one of your lame reactionary responses, just shut the fuck up. Admission is the best way to save face in your case, but you don't have the balls, priciples, or humility to do that eigther so I suppose you can reinforce the fact that you're a retarded peice of shit.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt That's the problem...politicians think they have the ability to 'fix' everything with the heavy hand of government, and they usually end up f*cking things up even worse than they were to begin with. No, Ron Paul is not promising to fix the planet. He knows that is impossible...and the best he can do is restore liberty and get government out of our lives as much as possible. This makes it easier for people to solve their own problems...and when you extend this philosophy to our military, it will save lives and greatly reduce the resentment/hatred of the USA around the world. I guess we'll see just how deaf those ears are on Jan 8th...and yeah, I think we definitely need a hardcore anti-neocon to reverse some of the damage done by Bush over the past 8 years, and RP is about as hardcore as they come.

Considering how much chaos and instability is a direct consequence of our foreign policy (aka blowback), I think Paul's traditional conservative principle of non-intervention would be a good start when it comes to minimizing the amount of choas and instability in the rest of the globe.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by Lesbianosaur The (relatively few) anecdotes aside, this is a fairly comprehensive list of the bills and amendments sponsored by PDD's favorite godfather, Ron Paul: For links to read the actual text of the resolutions, and not just the purpose stated on the House Record, go here: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/1...n-congress.html Of these, my favorites have to be the renewed US ownership of the Panama Canal (I thought we should get involved in foreign agression??? And who would that benefit? American big business perhaps?); pulling out of the ABM Treaty (or any other previously-honored treaty for that matter - because that would have no consequence for our reputation around the world or anything; not to mention that he wants to rebuild an American nuclear arsenal); the opening of national wildlife preserves and parks nationwide to coal mining and oil drilling; repealing the Clean Air Act and any other environmental legislation; backing out of any UN agency, including the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, World Food Programme, World Health Programme, High Commission for Human Rights, and Children's Fund; and in the true spirit of Dick Cheney, my personal favorite: H.R.5842: A bill to make all Iranian Students in the United States ineligible for any form of federal aid. But hey, he's nothing if not consistent. He doesn't only hate certain types of brown people. He hates ALL types of brown people.

Iranians aren't [uniformly] brown.

Ron Paul might be a bit of a hick, but he's a million times better than your corporate owned peice of shit candidates. That's good info though. I knew there had to be some dirt on the guy. Fortunately, his dirt only reflects that he's straight forward about his veiws and not afraid of admiting he's a hick. The Panama Canal bit is just fucking weird though, not exactly very non-interventionalist. It was built by the US though, in case you didn't know that, which costed roughly 5,500 American lives to complete. So I attribute that to the fact that he's a nationalist hick. Fortunately, he's an old school conservative hick who's interested in preserving the constituion and not pissing on it like the Bush Admin, I seriously fucking doubt an AIPAC owned corperate funded democratic executive branch would repeal the Patriot Act, Military Commisions Act, or the Detainee Bill. Ron Paul actually might.

EDIT: But don't worry, I got off the Ron Paul band wagon well before this thread was created.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Jan-02-2008 at 12:24

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, a self professed NeoCon should never even utter those words. I'm quite impressed by how low you can sink and how blatantly hyproctical you can be. And please don't bother with another one of your lame reactionary responses, just shut the fuck up. Admission is the best way to save face in your case, but you don't have the balls, priciples, or humility to do that eigther so I suppose you can reinforce the fact that you're a retarded peice of shit.

you support Ron Paul? you're a 3 percenter.

...AND you're gay? just shoot yourself.

go read your Information Clearing House, sheep.

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Originally posted by Q5echo you support Ron Paul? you're a 3 percenter.

Actually I don't anymore, I did initially until I found out he was "batshit crazy." He's still less of an asshole than most other candiadates though.

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Originally posted by Q5echo ...AND you're gay? just shoot yourself.

Just because I tore you a new one doesn't mean I fucked you in the ass Q, as much as you'd like that, I'm not in to men, and if I was, I wouldn't fuck you. Now go fuck yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo go read your Information Clearing House, sheep.

LOL, was that supposed to piss me off or something?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Considering how much chaos and instability is a direct consequence of our foreign policy (aka blowback), I think Paul's traditional conservative principle of non-intervention would be a good start when it comes to minimizing the amount of choas and instability in the rest of the globe.

I agree that our foreign policy is drastically misguided at times, but Paul would swing it wildly in a new direction that I believe is worse - an abrogation of international commitments would be seen by the rest of the world as a real failure on our part to live up to our word. Withdrawing from our pledges and commitments would cause some countries that have tolerated our hypocrisy to finally jump ship.

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Originally posted by Lesbianosaur I agree that our foreign policy is drastically misguided at times, but Paul would swing it wildly in a new direction that I believe is worse - an abrogation of international commitments would be seen by the rest of the world as a real failure on our part to live up to our word. Withdrawing from our pledges and commitments would cause some countries that have tolerated our hypocrisy to finally jump ship.

I don't think it would have much affect. You're already familiar with the miliray commisions act I'm sure. The executive branches self-granted immunity to the Geneva Conventions didn't do it, I doubt any of those would eigther. Although it is hard to see what Paul could actually in regards to the mess we're already in now, thanks to the Cheney gang.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't think it would have much affect. You're already familiar with the miliray commisions act I'm sure. The executive branches self-granted immunity to the Geneva Conventions didn't do it, I doubt any of those would eigther. Although it is hard to see what Paul could actually in regards to the mess we're already in now, thanks to the Cheney gang.

I think there are a lot of countries that are certainly uneasy about it. But extricating ourselves from trade agreements, regional cooperative organizations, etc. are things that other countries could have a real chip in their shoulder about. And withdrawing from bilateral trade agreements could actually hurt both parties economically, so they have an invested interest in the US living up to our commitments on that level.

But yes, the current situation is no good either. I just think we need some sort of middle-ground - Ron Paul represents a swing to the other extreme, and whether he is capable of pushing through his reforms or not, I don't want someone that misguided even near the White House. Who would have thought that this crew would have us in the mess we are in now? There is no telling what predicament a nutty guy like Ron Paul would get us in as well.

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