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| quote: | Originally posted by Dojomaster26
+1
Wow. Just wow at your argument.
[quote]1st off, I've said all along that Trance SELLS more than House |
Actually, that was a convenient afterthought, but nice try!
| quote: | SALES
SALES
SALES
SALES
And chadi, a "fact" is something that can be proven with hard numbers. |
You just love going in circles don't you? Can I see some "data" for this? I mean, you didn't possibly think for one second that you're somehow exempted from meeting up to the same standard of corroborative excellence that you're requiring of me, or did you?
But being the innovator that I am, I've got a fabulous idea for you. Since you don't believe that anything can be asserted (not even that George Washington existed) without some solid, unambiguous data to prove it, then how about you set the example and give me even a shred of data to back up the "fact" that trance sells more than house. Please, show me these "hard numbers".
| quote: | | Stop saying that "more clubs play House music" is a fact until you can PROVE IT. |
Is that tantamount to a recantation then? See below:
"The bottom line is that even though House rules the clubs, Trance rules the retail end of EDM."--Dojomaster26 (emphasis, mine)
| quote: | | And what's being played in those clubs are not translating into what is more popular, actual SALES tell the labels what is popular. No one in the biz gives a rat's ass that there are tons of House clubs in the US, but they do care that units of product labelled as "Trance" is moving. A House fan is nothing to the labels is he/she isn't BUYING the tunes! |
Should I hold my breath until you give me some evidence for this? Even an itty itty bitty?
| quote: | | Why should I? You have brought nothing of factual merit to the table, while I went out of my way to find FACTUAL data that Trance is on the charts here. A bunch of guesses and generalizations are not going to convince me of anything. Show me the sales numbers. You can do it! |
But I did actually bring up some good points which support my position. However, your choosing to accept it, I will admit, has been more of a challenge than anything else this little bit of discord has had to offer.
It's a shame we had to go all the way back to round one. 
| quote: | | Yes, I do expect that Cascada track to be played as often, if not more often, than the Rihanna track, depending on which club its played in. In a Top40 club, no, but in a gay club, very much yes. |
Do you think you've been to more gay clubs than I have, or did you just feel like you needed to say something in response?
| quote: | And when did "cheesy" enter this argument?
You think I have some sort of axe to grind over Trance music. I don't. I think you are just arguing with me at this point, with hard sales data put in front of you, so that you can "save face" over whatever big-name Trance DJ you like. I don't care who you listen to, and I think that you shouldn't be so insecure about your music tastes. However, don't think that your love of [insert big-name jock here] is special, or unique in any way. See those 5000 other people at the venue? Yeah, they're all there for the exact same reason that you are.
Get over it. Music is meant to be shared with others. If you have different preferences over what you like, then fine. But don't try to dispute FACTS to cover your favorite mega-popular marketing machine's ass. |
Oh come on! Now you're just blowing smoke. But before I let you more successfully muddle the nature of our original dispute, I will reiterate for you what my original contention was:
It is a common practice by some people on this board to make blanket statements about "trance" being "pop" because of how commercialized it's become, while unilaterally ignoring the fact that other EDM subgenres, including House have also become victims of this same commercialization.
So to constantly point a finger at trance by calling it the "poppiest" form of EDM (while acting as though all the other subgenres remain untainted), is just flat out stupid, and shows that the person making the statement couldn't be more misinformed.
| quote: | | I don't give a shit what you think about my music. I'm not here to grow a bigger e-penis than you. So here, enjoy some of my favorite J-Pop songs from artists that have went Gold, Platinum, or better, had tons of MTV-J coverage, endorsements, etc: |
More smoke and mirrors...bla bla bla. Why don't you just address the points at hand instead of spewing this verbal diarrhea ad nauseumn?
| quote: | | I think that it is you who is trying to cover your precious Trance music. Trance IS very popular music, no matter what you try to say to the contrary. Instead of trying to write off your corporate heroes as underground, unpopular artists, stop being so insecure about your music. You should be proud of what you listen to, no matter what I or anyone else thinks about it, instead of trying to defend it against people who simply don't care. |
Actually, my daddy CAN beat up your daddy!
| quote: | | If 3+ minute breakdowns, supersaw synths, and cheesy female vocals on top of some synthetic strings is House music, then yes, they are moving towards House music. But that's not the House that Jack built, or the House that I know. Don't assume that your definition of House is the definition that I, or the public, is going by. |
Again, this has nothing to do with our personal definitions. It has to do specifically with trance and house as they have been defined by generally accepted sources. You didn't create "house" and I didn't create "trance", we just have perceptions of what we feel should propery represent what we want to identify with.
Point is, don't glee over "trance" looking like britney spears when "house" looks like paris hilton. (You might remember my earlier reference about it).
| quote: | | Yeah, its called inference. I am inferring that even though there are tons of House clubs present in the US, that Trance is still more popular than House because of the higher sales of Trance (as evidenced by those charts) than House. More sales = more knowledge of music by buyers = more popularity. I would have thought that club play would have made a better correlation with what was on the charts, but apparently (with the exception of Circuit House)I was wrong. UWM also made the point that the big Trance jocks need larger venues to fill with the masses that will pay $40 to see them, while the biggest House DJs play in much smaller venues (in the US). |
But if, for one second, you expect me to believe that the snapshot "chart" you offered me is an evidence that trance outsells house music, you are more of a fruitcake than I initially thought.
That being said, did you know that incessantly repeating a non-truth never affords it any merit?
| quote: | | C0r version of my argument: Music that sells more is music that is popular. Therefore, Trance is more popular because more Trance is sold than other types of EDM. |
C0r version of my rebuttal: You have yet to offer me even a shred of data consistent with your own demands that I provide you with some solid evidence to support my claims that house music is "far more popular in America than trance is."
You have also failed to demonstrate any consistency argumentatively by first admitting [after losing corners to hide in] that house music is indeed more popular in the club scene, and then totally attempting to deny it in your subsequent reply.
Last edited by chadi on Jan-17-2008 at 04:26
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