Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Could the goverment have people on their payroll to post in forums like these?
Pages (25): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
culorut
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2007
Location: right here

The professionals had limited resources to work with.

Explosion at WTC Complex


Despite the fact that the horrible events of Sept. 11 occurred in broad daylight and were widely photographed, significant aspects of the attacks have been completely suppressed by a media blackout.

Exclusive to American Free Press
By Christopher Bollyn

A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it.

Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6.

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the 47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m.

The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually occurred.

The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent collapse of the tower.

TIMING CONFIRMED

American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was filmed.

CNN’s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said “that’s correct.”

When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the archivist said: “We can’t figure it out.”

The affected space between WTC 7 and the North Tower was occupied by the Customs House building, also known as WTC 6. The building housed the offices of 760 employees of the Customs Service, a part of Treasury. Other federal
agencies had offices in the building, including the Departments of Commerce, Agriculture, Labor, and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. They did not return calls to AFP about the matter.

A spokesman for the Export-Import Bank of the United States, which had an office with four employees on the sixth floor of the Customs House, confirmed the time of the explosion and told AFP that the employees had survived and been relocated. One private company, Eastco Building Services, Inc., reportedly leased space in the building.

Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18 Washington Post article by Stephen Barr.

The Barr piece is the only known article published about WTC 6. However, Barr failed to mention the explosion that apparently devastated the building just minutes after the workers had escaped with their lives.

AVOIDING THE SUBJECT

Although the Customs House apparently exploded at 9:04 a.m., the government-sponsored investigation was steered away from looking into what had actually happened.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency funded an investigation by the American Society of Civil Engineers. However, investigators were reportedly blocked from the building by an order from the New York City’s Department.
of Design and Construction .

Kenneth Holden is commissioner of the DDC, having been appointed by the former mayor, Rudolph Giuliani on Dec. 7, 1999.

Regarding the investigation of WTC 4, 5, and 6, FEMA’s “Building Performance” report says, “WTC 5 was the only building accessible for observation.” But, it adds, “the observations, findings, and recommendations are assumed to be applicable to all three buildings.”

A spokesman for FEMA told AFP that because the building was considered by DDC to be “very dangerous,” there was “no data collection” from WTC 6.

Dr. Gene Corley, one of the engineers who led the investigation, told AFP that concerns about loose gold bullion and cash prevented investigators from entering WTC 4.

The FEMA report says, “The buildings [4,5,6] responded as expected to the impact loadings.” Although the report says, “most of the central part of WTC 6 suffered collapse on all floors,” it adds, “damage was consistent with the observed impact load.”

The Customs House had a huge crater in its center. Corley told AFP that he had not seen the CNN photos before and called them “interesting.”

Corley, like other experts, thought the damage at WTC 6 was caused by the collapse of the North Tower. However, not one of the experts could recall seeing the CNN footage before.

A spokesman for the Customs Service told AFP, “It did not blow up. When the tower collapsed it caved in.”

Corley said he had not seen the photos of the extremely high-speed missile-like object seen streaking toward WTC 6 from behind the North Tower as the second plane hit the South Tower.

He noted that parts of the plane’s landing gear and an engine passed through the South Tower, and landed several blocks away.

These objects, however, had a distinctly different trajectory from the streaking missile-like object. Another investigator, Jonathan Barnett, told AFP, “The debris from Tower 2 hit Building 5, not 6.”

Old Post Oct-21-2008 17:56  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for culorut Click here to Send culorut a Private Message Add culorut to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
{b.s.e.}
savant garde



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: The Source

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
What are you a physicist now? I'll take the opinion of professional and learned engineers any day over yours..


?.. I understand the concept(s) behind physics, just as you should be able to.

If not, ask an architect, or maybe an engineer.

http://www.ae911truth.org/


___________________
Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:00  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for {b.s.e.} Click here to Send {b.s.e.} a Private Message Add {b.s.e.} to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
?.. I understand the concept(s) behind physics, just as you should be able to.


Do you? You're the one pretending there aren't any calculations involved with the laws of physics. Mocking calculus is a very poor way to boost your physics credentials, considering that those laws exist only as literary interpretations of differential equations.


___________________

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:02  United Nations
Click Here to See the Profile for Lebezniatnikov Click here to Send Lebezniatnikov a Private Message Add Lebezniatnikov to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
culorut
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2007
Location: right here

ASCE was called out in 2002.


$elling Out the Investigation


Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the Happyland Social Club Fire? Did they cast aside the pressure-regulating valves at the Meridian Plaza Fire? Of course not. But essentially, that's what they're doing at the World Trade Center.

For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car.

Such destruction of evidence shows the astounding ignorance of government officials to the value of a thorough, scientific investigation of the largest fire-induced collapse in world history. I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall.

Hoping beyond hope, I have called experts to ask if the towers were the only high-rise buildings in America of lightweight, center-core construction. No such luck. I made other calls asking if these were the only buildings in America with light-density, sprayed-on fireproofing. Again, no luck-they were two of thousands that fit the description.

Comprehensive disaster investigations mean increased safety. They mean positive change. NASA knows it. The NTSB knows it. Does FEMA know it?

No. Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the "official investigation" blessed by FEMA and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers is a half-baked farce that may already have been commandeered by political forces whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure. Except for the marginal benefit obtained from a three-day, visual walk-through of evidence sites conducted by ASCE investigation committee members- described by one close source as a "tourist trip"-no one's checking the evidence for anything.

Maybe we should live and work in planes. That way, if disaster strikes, we will at least be sure that a thorough investigation will help find ways to increase safety for our survivors.

As things now stand and if they continue in such fashion, the investigation into the World Trade Center fire and collapse will amount to paper- and computer-generated hypotheticals.

However, respected members of the fire protection engineering community are beginning to raise red flags, and a resonating theory has emerged: The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers. Rather, theory has it, the subsequent contents fires attacking the questionably fireproofed lightweight trusses and load-bearing columns directly caused the collapses in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.

The frequency of published and unpublished reports raising questions about the steel fireproofing and other fire protection elements in the buildings, as well as their design and construction, is on the rise. The builders and owners of the World Trade Center property, the Port Authority of New York-New Jersey, a governmental agency that operates in an accountability vacuum beyond the reach of local fire and building codes, has denied charges that the buildings' fire protection or construction components were substandard but has refused to cooperate with requests for documentation supporting its contentions.

Some citizens are taking to the streets to protest the investigation sellout. Sally Regenhard, for one, wants to know why and how the building fell as it did upon her unfortunate son Christian, an FDNY probationary firefighter. And so do we.

Clearly, there are burning questions that need answers. Based on the incident's magnitude alone, a full-throttle, fully resourced, forensic investigation is imperative. More important, from a moral standpoint, for the safety of present and future generations who live and work in tall buildings-and for firefighters, always first in and last out-the lessons about the buildings' design and behavior in this extraordinary event must be learned and applied in the real world.

To treat the September 11 incident any differently would be the height of stupidity and ignorance.

The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately.

The federal government must scrap the current setup and commission a fully resourced blue ribbon panel to conduct a clean and thorough investigation of the fire and collapse, leaving no stones unturned.

Firefighters, this is your call to action. Visit WTC "Investigation"?: A Call to Action, then contact your representatives in Congress and officials in Washington and help us correct this problem immediately.


http://www.fireengineering.com/sear...l?keywords=ASCE

^^

You have to subscribe but the articles are more than worth their weight in gold.

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:03  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for culorut Click here to Send culorut a Private Message Add culorut to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
{b.s.e.}
savant garde



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: The Source

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Do you? You're the one pretending there aren't any calculations involved with the laws of physics. Mocking calculus is a very poor way to boost your physics credentials, considering that those laws exist only as literary interpretations of differential equations.


I'm not mocking calculus, I'm inferring that it's an unnecessary element confusion when all you need to understand is:

[a] and [b]
[ ]
[ ]
[ ]
----------

Will never fall at the same rate.

Where A) represents an object with the path of greatest resistance, and B) represents the path of least resistance.

Get it?


___________________
Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:04  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for {b.s.e.} Click here to Send {b.s.e.} a Private Message Add {b.s.e.} to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

So your theory of what happened is that there are articles questioning the due process of the investigation?

That's hardly a theory at all.


___________________

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:05  United Nations
Click Here to See the Profile for Lebezniatnikov Click here to Send Lebezniatnikov a Private Message Add Lebezniatnikov to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
{b.s.e.}
savant garde



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: The Source

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
So your theory of what happened is that there are articles questioning the due process of the investigation?

That's hardly a theory at all.


Are you daft? I hate resorting to questioning someone's intelligence, but you're leading me to believe that you are incapable of thinking for yourself.

Even those on the Commission have come forward stating they didn't have enough time or resources to do a proper investigation.


___________________
Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:06  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for {b.s.e.} Click here to Send {b.s.e.} a Private Message Add {b.s.e.} to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
I'm not mocking calculus, I'm inferring that it's an unnecessary element confusion when all you need to understand is:

[a] and [b]
[ ]
[ ]
[ ]
----------

Will never fall at the same rate.

Where A) represents an object with the path of greatest resistance, and B) represents the path of least resistance.

Get it?


That's a stupendously simplistic assertion. What was the acceleration of the falling object? The momentum? The resistance put forth by the stationary object? Did both towers fall at the same acceleration rate?

Are we even sure that both objects A. and B. fell at the same rate? What base level of acceleration are you basing this on? I've seen no evidence to suggest that the towers accelerated in their descent at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2, but would love the opportunity to look at data that suggests that kind of free fall.

In both cases video evidence suggests the building fell from the top down... are you disputing this?


___________________

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:08  United Nations
Click Here to See the Profile for Lebezniatnikov Click here to Send Lebezniatnikov a Private Message Add Lebezniatnikov to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Are you daft? I hate resorting to questioning someone's intelligence, but you're leading me to believe that you are incapable of thinking for yourself.

Even those on the Commission have come forward stating they didn't have enough time or resources to do a proper investigation.


Great, so suppose I accept this as fact (which I do). What's the alternative hypothesis? Just because they didn't do as thorough an analysis as possible doesn't mean that they're wrong (which I don't believe they are).

I know a few people who were on the Commission, and I don't see any reason to question their conclusions based on what I've heard about their investigation from them - would they have liked to do a more detailed analysis? Sure. Do they think the fundamental premise of their findings are false? Not a chance.

Which is why I'm asking for two things from you:

1. Why is their premise false? Simply stating that the investigation could have been more thorough is like saying "Congress could have spent more time debating H.R. 1054." It doesn't necessarily change the outcome.

2. What is your alternative account of events? What happened on 9/11, and what is your support for that argument?


___________________

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:12  United Nations
Click Here to See the Profile for Lebezniatnikov Click here to Send Lebezniatnikov a Private Message Add Lebezniatnikov to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
?.. I understand the concept(s) behind physics, just as you should be able to.

If not, ask an architect, or maybe an engineer.

http://www.ae911truth.org/


You may understand physics, but you have no authority (like a physics degree) to expound on the physics of the twin towers collapse without sourcing your points.

But by all means, state your case, and source your arguments to an expert, if you want to have a rational debate....I already asked colorut, and he politely declined...


___________________

Old Post Oct-21-2008 18:16  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
Click Here to See the Profile for Krypton Click here to Send Krypton a Private Message Visit Krypton's homepage! Add Krypton to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Do you? You're the one pretending there aren't any calculations involved with the laws of physics. Mocking calculus is a very poor way to boost your physics credentials, considering that those laws exist only as literary interpretations of differential equations.

Yes, and I've done a fair bit of Physics both in secondary school and college. Which is why the pancake theory is beyond retarded to me.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-21-2008 19:43  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for shaolin_Z Click here to Send shaolin_Z a Private Message Add shaolin_Z to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
That's a stupendously simplistic assertion. What was the acceleration of the falling object? The momentum? The resistance put forth by the stationary object? Did both towers fall at the same acceleration rate?

Are we even sure that both objects A. and B. fell at the same rate? What base level of acceleration are you basing this on? I've seen no evidence to suggest that the towers accelerated in their descent at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2, but would love the opportunity to look at data that suggests that kind of free fall.

In both cases video evidence suggests the building fell from the top down... are you disputing this?

Umm, acceleration is due to gravitational pull between object. Which is the same for any object in free fall on earth, g, which is approximately 9.8 m/s^2. If I remember correctly F = GMm / r^2. The only way to go faster than free fall is to have additional force which would also lead to additional kinetic energy. The only way those building can fall at nearly free fall speed is if every single support beam failed simultaneously, or at least before each successive floor hit the one below it... in fact, it should even be hitting it period if it's to fall at that rate. There is no evidence to support the pancake theory, it's just a theory, and a very bad one.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-21-2008 20:09  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for shaolin_Z Click here to Send shaolin_Z a Private Message Add shaolin_Z to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Could the goverment have people on their payroll to post in forums like these?
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (25): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackSpeedy J I Love Techno 2003 [2004] [1]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackTopmodelz - "Strings Of Infinity" [2004]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 17:21.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!