both sides use human shields, so people gotta stop making Hamas look like they are the only perpetrator of this war crime.

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Originally posted by DJ Damerchi both sides use human shields, so people gotta stop making Hamas look like they are the only perpetrator of this war crime.

that's pretty weak evidence for your claim, and it isn't even remotely the same. i'll point out the three major difference for you since you obviously didn't pick up on those differences. Assuming those two were actually being used as shields:

1) the israelis were using palestinians and not israelis;

2) the palestinians were being detained, which raises questions about whether they were even civilians; and

2) the palestinians were being used to protect the israelis from rocks, not explosives. The most likely consequence of being hit by a rock is a bruise, not death.

They were protecting themselves against whatever weaponry the palestineans had, which were rocks at the time. It is the mentality and principle behind their actions..they were willing to go to such lengths to protect themselves from rock, so imagine what those INDIVIDUAL IDFers would do if they were getting machine gun fired or mortared.it seemed like a very unorthodox way to detain someone, they yell, kids go to the front with no cuffs with fear of getting capped, they close the door after being questioned.

But the point that you made is somewhat valid, they are hiding behind palestineans and not their own, which is what Hamas is doing, , which depends on the assumption that the enemy doesnt want to harm the civilians of the opposing side intentionally. This will work in their favor, and I cant say the same for Hamas(obviously, they practice terror, a complete disregard for the preservation of civilian life).

Nonetheless, it is still illegal practice, whether the shield is your own people or people of the opposing force

In ideology, IDF(as shown in the end of the video) is not to engage in such behaviour, but in practice, factions of the IDF have a bad track record for non compliance.

Last edited by Damerchi on Jan-01-2009 at 20:52

LOL, protesters in Iran are so desperate to hurt someone, anyone, that they tried to storm the Jordanian embassy. In Lebanon, Hezbollah (a proxy of Iran) supporters tried to storm the Egyptian embassy a few days ago.
Yet even the Hezbollah is opting to stay out of this war. Keep in mind that back in 2006 after Israel went into Lebanon and kicked the shit out of Hezbollah (follwing the killing and kidnappings of several Israeli soldiers), the Hamas decided to open a second front.

The Arab world is deeply divided over the situation in Gaza for 2 reasons: a) Most Arab leaders have closer ties with Fatah, and with Mahmoud Abbas.
b) There is growing fear amongst Arab leaders of Iran trying to strengthen its sphere of influence on the region.

Don't believe me? Then read this:
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=15213

Highlights from the article include:
"The only advantage to Nasrallah’s speech is that it revealed to the world what we have been saying the whole time: that Iran is a real threat to Arab security, as today it launched a war against Egypt, tomorrow against Saudi Arabia, and then the whole house of cards will collapse"

"Hassan Nasrallah, who made an appearance on Sunday to stir up the Arabs and Arabism, who is the same man who occupied Beirut and tortured its Sunni citizens along with Iranian agents"

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Originally posted by CHRles LOL, protesters in Iran are so desperate to hurt someone, anyone, that they tried to storm the Jordanian embassy. In Lebanon, Hezbollah (a proxy of Iran) supporters tried to storm the Egyptian embassy a few days ago. Yet even the Hezbollah is opting to stay out of this war. Keep in mind that back in 2006 after Israel went into Lebanon and kicked the shit out of Hezbollah (follwing the killing and kidnappings of several Israeli soldiers), the Hamas decided to open a second front. The Arab world is deeply divided over the situation in Gaza for 2 reasons: a) Most Arab leaders have closer ties with Fatah, and with Mahmoud Abbas. b) There is growing fear amongst Arab leaders of Iran trying to strengthen its sphere of influence on the region. Don't believe me? Then read this: http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=15213 Highlights from the article include: "The only advantage to Nasrallah’s speech is that it revealed to the world what we have been saying the whole time: that Iran is a real threat to Arab security, as today it launched a war against Egypt, tomorrow against Saudi Arabia, and then the whole house of cards will collapse" "Hassan Nasrallah, who made an appearance on Sunday to stir up the Arabs and Arabism, who is the same man who occupied Beirut and tortured its Sunni citizens along with Iranian agents"

What a twisted version of reality...

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Originally posted by DJ Damerchi They were protecting themselves against whatever weaponry the palestineans had, which were rocks at the time. It is the mentality and principle behind their actions..they were willing to go to such lengths to protect themselves from rock, so imagine what those INDIVIDUAL IDFers would do if they were getting machine gun fired or mortared.it seemed like a very unorthodox way to detain someone, they yell, kids go to the front with no cuffs with fear of getting capped, they close the door after being questioned.

so you think IDF soldiers would hide behind civilians if bullets were being fired upon them? that's a pretty strong claim.

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Originally posted by DJ Damerchi But the point that you made is somewhat valid, they are hiding behind palestineans and not their own, which is what Hamas is doing, , which depends on the assumption that the enemy doesnt want to harm the civilians of the opposing side intentionally. This will work in their favor, and I cant say the same for Hamas(obviously, they practice terror, a complete disregard for the preservation of civilian life).

israel's biggest problem on the world stage is its perception among the world population. the last thing israel needs or wants is to be more brutal to civilian populations. that would only work against israel.

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Originally posted by DJ Damerchi Nonetheless, it is still illegal practice, whether the shield is your own people or people of the opposing force

crimes have degrees of severity. For example, killings are separated by degrees, such as first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, and usually some sort of misdemeanor killing. putting two boys in front of a car so that their friends will stop throwing rocks in the direction of the IDF soldiers wouldn't even come close to the same as shooting missiles from a building adjacent to a school. The latter is along the lines of first degree murder, and the former is along the lines of a misdemeanor killing.

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Originally posted by DJ Damerchi In ideology, IDF(as shown in the end of the video) is not to engage in such behaviour, but in practice, factions of the IDF have a bad track record for non compliance.

correct - and in ideology, hamas operates among the palestinian civilian population, which makes hamas far more culpable than the institution that is the IDF.

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Originally posted by Krypton What a twisted version of reality...

i'm not saying the claims of chrles have any merit, however, when claiming his statements are inaccurate you would have much more credibility if you would put forth a supported alternative view.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 so you think IDF soldiers would hide behind civilians if bullets were being fired upon them? that's a pretty strong claim.

Not all soldiers....but it happens. in the second video i posted they are clearly using that guy to open doors for them, and were directing him around like a ragdoll. They were in close quarters and were anticipating possible retalliation

Israel managed to kill one of Hamas's most notorious leaders today. He was shot down and killed...along with 2 of his 4 wives(!!!), as well as several of his children. Not that he really gave a crap about his kids anyway - he sent one of them on a suicide bombing mission back in 2001.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i'm not saying the claims of chrles have any merit, however, when claiming his statements are inaccurate you would have much more credibility if you would put forth a supported alternative view.

W3rd.

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