This is bad news. I'm very sad about the hysteria that comes from shit like this. People are getting all up in arms because it was a rave and E was involved but its seriously all nonsense.

Do they really think that if they took a random sample of 16000 non-raving 16-24 year olds on a saturday night that NONE of them would get hospitalized or die?

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If you are parent of one of those teenagers, you would probably feel differently. Don't tell me that parental concerns are invalid. Given this economy, most of the kids probably use their parents' money to buy the tickets and drugs.

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Originally posted by Sadface This is bad news. I'm very sad about the hysteria that comes from shit like this. People are getting all up in arms because it was a rave and E was involved but its seriously all nonsense. Do they really think that if they took a random sample of 16000 non-raving 16-24 year olds on a saturday night that NONE of them would get hospitalized or die?

EDMDancer, my issue is this was a 23 year old person who put an illegal substance in his body in which probably helped lead to his death, but then the mom and other people blame the party & skills.

And I don't recall any of the other ODs or whatever the people have being minors.

At some people, people have to realize that all these adults ingesting these things are just that, adults. How about responsibility is placed upon them.

As far as minors, at that point it's up to the parent to know where their child is and if they have any inkling that they would be going to an event like this and don't want them too, lock them into their room. Sure, children can deceive parents. But maybe it's the parents fault that their relationship with their child is at that point.

Last edited by DaveT on Jun-02-2010 at 18:10

Dave, I am sure legally the promoters are clear. It is pretty much debatable in terms of ethics. Don't tell me that the promoters aren't aware of the drug use among the patrons of the party. I just don't believe that the promoters would actively discourage the patrons from using drugs since it is against the business interest. When that many people are using drugs in your party, ODs are bound to happen. You can ask their loved ones to point fingers to the OD folks, but they would naturally point fingers to the promoters.

Those kids' parents ARE in a position to make legal changes they desire. They are the richer and more powerful folks. It is easier for them to make legislation rather than fighting it domestically by locking their kids down. I mean, how are they supposed to know all those events going around, big and small, if they aren't interested in EDM in the first place?

I am not trying to take any side; am just telling how I perceive this social dynamics works.

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Originally posted by EDMDancer If you are parent of one of those teenagers, you would probably feel differently. Don't tell me that parental concerns are invalid. Given this economy, most of the kids probably use their parents' money to buy the tickets and drugs.

Of course the parents are going to be concerned about their kids. I'm just frustrated that everyone always tries to play up these parties as super scary dangerous events when the fact remains that on a BAD day they still had >99.9% of attendees making it home without any problems.

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So the mercury news said the cow palace will still throw events. So was the issue all about tainted drugs vs overdose? If there are tainted drugs then its the genre's fault and if not then its the persons fault? Pretty funny how that works.

This is actually a pretty good article giving arguments from both sides.

http://cbs5.com/crime/cow.palace.rave.2.1729190.html

The cow palace is a terrible venue anyways. They needa tear it down and just throw a party in the parking lot! The place is old, dirty, and the narrow hallways and slippery floors make it impossible to get anywhere safely. They also charge a shit ton of money for water, and raise the price progressively throughout the night. I have attended the previous two ETD POPsicle events prior to this one, and while the DJs that spun were very enjoyable, the venue just ruins the event.


I wish northern california had more outdoor massives like the ones held in LA.

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Originally posted by EDMDancer Dave, I am sure legally the promoters are clear. It is pretty much debatable in terms of ethics. Don't tell me that the promoters aren't aware of the drug use among the patrons of the party. I just don't believe that the promoters would actively discourage the patrons from using drugs since it is against the business interest. When that many people are using drugs in your party, ODs are bound to happen. You can ask their loved ones to point fingers to the OD folks, but they would naturally point fingers to the promoters. Those kids' parents ARE in a position to make legal changes they desire. They are the richer and more powerful folks. It is easier for them to make legislation rather than fighting it domestically by locking their kids down. I mean, how are they supposed to know all those events going around, big and small, if they aren't interested in EDM in the first place? I am not trying to take any side; am just telling how I perceive this social dynamics works.

When promoters actively discourage drug use, it tends to ruin the fun for everyone whether they are on drugs or not. Then you just have an empty party.

I've never been to the Cow Palace but I've never heard anything good about it anyway. Shitty location, bad vibes. Like my friend said, something like this was just bound to happen there. Of course, something like this is just bound to happen when there are that many people having a party, so what?

Definitely a telling thing about the bay area that the media doesnt just call for the heads of anyone involved in organizing this and spread misinformation, it actually tends toward reasonable debate.

Have a feeling we may never know what really killed the guy, there are lots of research chemicals being sold as E, many of which won't even show up on a postmortem drug screen and could be anything, he could have taken just MDMA or any combination. No doubt that pure MDMA really can kill people in this way but there are typically some sort of very rare complicating factors, as I don't need to tell this board. :P

Last edited by Ronald Ravin' on Jun-03-2010 at 06:38

I can't find it right now, but I read an updated AP Newswire article on my BB saying that drug overdose was ruled OUT as a possibility of the deaths and that the symptoms were that similar to MDMA overdose.


Also, just wanted to post my comment that POP (when I went in 2008) was the MOST, absolute worst ventilated rave ever. I'm actually glad the power went out during tiesto so we could get the F--- out of there.

When people say that condensation is dripping of the walls, there is no exaggeration or hyerbole there what so ever. It literally is.

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Originally posted by Ronald Ravin' Have a feeling we may never know what really killed the guy, there are lots of research chemicals being sold as E, many of which won't even show up on a postmortem drug screen and could be anything, he could have taken just MDMA or any combination. No doubt that pure MDMA really can kill people in this way but there are typically some sort of very rare complicating factors, as I don't need to tell this board. :P

p.s. fuck the cow palace

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The pro-massive side is basically saying they would prefer to control and regulate the events, instead of driving them underground. While this is pretty much a valid point, the current condition of control and regulation is far from satisfactory. They have been trying that for a long time. Don't ever think the kids' parents, which are the most concerned party, would accept that as a norm. So unless the pro-massive side can come up new ideas to substantially reduce drug use, they would do all they could to ban underage massives.

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Originally posted by DaveT This is actually a pretty good article giving arguments from both sides. http://cbs5.com/crime/cow.palace.rave.2.1729190.html