I love how Jay is arguing very hard on this. He makes it look like this new law is actually worse, that it will kill more people than it is supposed to save. Its like it is going to have the opposite effect

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According to MADD Canada, while drivers aged 16 to 24 make up just 13 per cent of the population, they represent 33 per cent of deaths caused by drunk driving.

Those are quite sobering statistics, dont you think? That will be hard to fight in court, but the challenge to the law by that young man is a reasonable one.

Maybe upon appeal, they will ban drinking and driving completely. But then many people like Jay will come out and protest it and it will be dropped. Faster than the eco tax. And number of fatalities as a result alcohol behind the wheel will not see any further reductions - and Canada will continue to drop behind the rest of the developed world in that area.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I love how Jay is arguing very hard on this. He makes it look like this new law is actually worse, that it will kill more people than it is supposed to save. Its like it is going to have the opposite effect Those are quite sobering statistics, dont you think? That will be hard to fight in court, but the challenge to the law by that young man is a reasonable one. Maybe upon appeal, they will ban drinking and driving completely. But then many people like Jay will come out and protest it and it will be dropped. Faster than the eco tax. And number of fatalities as a result alcohol behind the wheel will not see any further reductions - and Canada will continue to drop behind the rest of the developed world in that area.

Again you miss my point. Its not about drinking and driving per se. Its about passing laws that are discriminatory and treat adults like babies.

Lets talk about the rest of the developed world shall we?

In place like Europe and Australia one can drink openly anywhere and there is rarely if ever such thing as a last call. Drinking age tends to be 18 and sometimes 16. And their drinking and driving laws are much tougher than ours. Many times its zero tolerance across the board.

Thats the kind of mature thinking we need over here instead of stupid patchwork nanny style laws that do nothing but create a taboo interest that translates into even more binge drinking and delays normal development.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by Magnetonium According to MADD Canada, while drivers aged 16 to 24 make up just 13 per cent of the population, they represent 33 per cent of deaths caused by drunk driving.

That stat means absolutely nothing. What percent of the population are 16 to 24 means nothing. What percent of the driving population they are would be better...or even better still compare the percentages of drunk driving charges against each age category. I bet the numbers would be a lot different and you would find that other age categories are just as bad if not worse.

Its way to easy to make stats that fit an agenda. MADD is notorious for doing this to push their agendas.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced That stat means absolutely nothing. What percent of the population are 16 to 24 means nothing. What percent of the driving population they are would be better...or even better still compare the percentages of drunk driving charges against each age category. I bet the numbers would be a lot different and you would find that other age categories are just as bad if not worse. Its way to easy to make stats that fit an agenda. MADD is notorious for doing this to push their agendas.

you forgot to mention how often this group goes out compared to older people. That also has a lot to do with it.

Im betting if average 40 year olds partied every weekend that they too would spike the stats.

The law is an ass either way u slice it

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by Jayx1 you forgot to mention how often this group goes out compared to older people. That also has a lot to do with it.

Good point, maybe the law should be changed.........to be 18-25 year olds instead.

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Originally posted by cammaxwell Good point, maybe the law should be changed.........to be 18-25 year olds instead.

yeah i think everyone should stay home at all ages and watch tv, pay their taxes and go to work the next day. Otherwise the government wont get it's cut!

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I love how Jay is arguing very hard on this. He makes it look like this new law is actually worse, that it will kill more people than it is supposed to save. Its like it is going to have the opposite effect Those are quite sobering statistics, dont you think? That will be hard to fight in court, but the challenge to the law by that young man is a reasonable one. Maybe upon appeal, they will ban drinking and driving completely. But then many people like Jay will come out and protest it and it will be dropped. Faster than the eco tax. And number of fatalities as a result alcohol behind the wheel will not see any further reductions - and Canada will continue to drop behind the rest of the developed world in that area.

statistics can be used (and skewed) in many ways, as others have pointed out.

e.g. some have put forth statistics that suggest members of certain minorities commit a much greater % of certain crimes (obviously ignoring countless other variables that we don't need to rehash here).

does that justify amending legislation based upon race?

no.

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Originally posted by MarkT statistics can be used (and skewed) in many ways, as others have pointed out. e.g. some have put forth statistics that suggest members of certain minorities commit a much greater % of certain crimes (obviously ignoring countless other variables that we don't need to rehash here). does that justify amending legislation based upon race? no.

You're comparing apples to oranges here (race legislation vs. drunk driving legislation). Statistics are manipulative, yes, but the fact is that many youth die from drunk driving in Canada every year. You cant twist that fact. And all we are doing are coming up with excuses to brush the issue under the carpet because it hurts our precious feelings.

Yeah, they should ban alcohol for drivers of ALL ages, I think. But that is pretty much impossible, in Canada at least.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Yeah, they should ban alcohol for drivers of ALL ages, I think. But that is pretty much impossible, in Canada at least.

If you can ban alcohol from one age then why is it impossible to ban it for all ages....its not...maybe not a good political move.

The only reason this age category is being targeted is because the MADD cows have nothing better to do because Oprah is going off the air soon and Dalton doesn't want to piss off any group that might vote for him. Since the 19-21 age doesn't typically vote, especially liberal, then its not going to hurt him too much come election time.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced If you can ban alcohol from one age then why is it impossible to ban it for all ages....its not...maybe not a good political move. The only reason this age category is being targeted is because the MADD cows have nothing better to do because Oprah is going off the air soon and Dalton doesn't want to piss off any group that might vote for him. Since the 19-21 age doesn't typically vote, especially liberal, then its not going to hurt him too much come election time.

With regards to politicians, I agree, and I mentioned exactly the same thing in my earlier posts on this thread, in case you missed it.

Dissing MADD is not cool, because there are tens of thousands of Canadians out there who become fresh victims and fatalities EVERY year from alcohol, not just drunk drivers, but family abuse, alcohol and violence, alcohol abuse, alcohol and boating, drownings, alcohol and falls, alcohol and the workplace, in sports, alcohol poisoning and organ damage, alcohol overdose and death, it can even contribute to suicide, etc. etc. etc. They are genuinely concerned about curtailing the damaging effect of alcohol - but since they can never ban it - they instead campaign hard and have plenty of victims and stories to back their campaign. Ironically, other drugs like marijuana are illegal yet they dont cause this much damage. But thats a different topic.

Alcohol abuse and alcohol irresponsibility is a very serious problem.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Alcohol abuse and alcohol irresponsibility is a very serious problem.

I don't disagree that it's a very serious problem. I do feel that MADD goes to far sometimes....just like PETA goes to far sometimes. The cause is noble but how they go about trying to change things and their expectations are not.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I don't disagree that it's a very serious problem. I do feel that MADD goes to far sometimes....just like PETA goes to far sometimes. The cause is noble but how they go about trying to change things and their expectations are not.

On the contrary, PETA and MADD are very different. PETA uses violence and intimidation ... remember how one of our ministers was pied in the face recently? PETA members have been behind countless attacks and other actions of force. They are quite radical.

MADD doesnt firebomb research facilities or uses violence against people. But they do campaign to save lives, reaching out on a community and political levels. But alcohol industry uses clever tactics to make organizations like MADD look bad, because they pose a threat to its bottom line.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture