No, I'm naive. Do some convincing for once.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I've already explained. Its a fucking simple concept.

You have a secret, you tell it to someone else because it will benefit the two parties knowing this secret at the expense of a third party who might not share the same interests as you and the second party (and you may share some interests with the third party that the second party doesn't share with you).

You make deals, things happen, both sides get what they want.

The other parties aren't naive to this whole process, but not knowing allows all involved to do this with immunity from bitching and annoying shit from the people that might be getting slightly screwed from these deals (yes, other countries screw over other countries for their own gain, been happening for... well forever, its human nature).

If you can not understand this very very very very VERY basic principal of diplomacy, that secrets are good, then you are a fucking idiot.

So, sorry that the government doesn't tell every nightly news source what they are plaining to do to benefit us and probably hurt one of our competitors in some field (who might be our friend in another), I guess they should though because everyone is entitled to know what everyone is doing all the time.

This is essentially the same scenario as someone taking nude photos of themselves and sharing it with their significant other, only to have the significant others jealous roommate find them and post them online for everyone to see.

If you can't see how that is bad, then please post nudes of your significant other right now.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Share yours?

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I've already explained. Its a fucking simple concept. You have a secret, you tell it to someone else because it will benefit the two parties knowing this secret at the expense of a third party who might not share the same interests as you and the second party (and you may share some interests with the third party that the second party doesn't share with you). You make deals, things happen, both sides get what they want. The other parties aren't naive to this whole process, but not knowing allows all involved to do this with immunity from bitching and annoying shit from the people that might be getting slightly screwed from these deals (yes, other countries screw over other countries for their own gain, been happening for... well forever, its human nature). If you can not understand this very very very very VERY basic principal of diplomacy, that secrets are good, then you are a fucking idiot. So, sorry that the government doesn't tell every nightly news source what they are plaining to do to benefit us and probably hurt one of our competitors in some field (who might be our friend in another), I guess they should though because everyone is entitled to know what everyone is doing all the time. This is essentially the same scenario as someone taking nude photos of themselves and sharing it with their significant other, only to have the significant others jealous roommate find them and post them online for everyone to see. If you can't see how that is bad, then please post nudes of your significant other right now.

fixed

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On fixed

Thats the same exact thing...

*sigh* Fine, I'll underline the sections that I fixed.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On *sigh* Fine, I'll underline the sections that I fixed.

No, I mean they were the exact same thing, unless you edited it, just to be sure I even ran it through kdiff to see if there was something I missed...

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Yes?

Who entitled them to keep secrets? If anything, I want to make sure I know what my representatives are doing on my behalf.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Sorry Lira, there are things you should not be allowed to know unless you are allowed to know them.

Yes, like your address. My governor's guilty pleasures (unless they somehow affect his work). My neighbour's passwords.

Fight all you want, but it's come to a point where it's virtually impossible for a country to both secure and secretive: The failure to foresee 9/11 was behind the expansion of the American communication system, which is what eventually made it more vulnerable to this sort of event.

It's about time this happened. We all know how secrecy helped prevent the First World War!

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Indiana Clones Upcoming Sets
[ I May Upload Something Someday ]

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Who entitled them to keep secrets? If anything, I want to make sure I know what my representatives are doing on my behalf.

You do, if you do not like it, vote in people that will tell you everything. If you can't vote them in, then take the government by force. Do you think the US should share all its diplomatic relationships with Brazil? Do you think Brazil should share all its diplomatic plans with China or Argentina? By all means, vote in people that will tell the world all of Brazil's plans, because you know most countries won't play by the same rules.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Yes, like your address. My governor's guilty pleasures (unless they somehow affect his work). My neighbour's passwords. Fight all you want, but it's come to a point where it's virtually impossible for a country to both secure and secretive: The failure to foresee 9/11 was behind the expansion of the American communication system, which is what eventually made it more vulnerable to this sort of event. It's about time this happened. We all know how secrecy helped prevent the First World War!

No, its incredibly possible. This information was stolen from a secure network, not even connected to the civilian internet by someone who wished to do harm to US foreign relations.

Also 9/11 was not prevented due to inter-agency conflicts and infighting within the US intelligence agencies who were unwilling to share information with each other.

Your example is horrible as well because it contradicts itself. You say that a country can not be secure because of the expanse of the communication systems available now, but you claim that its also easier for people to be more secretive somehow as well... That doesn't make sense, its less secret because people are able to do more secret things on it more easily...

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss fixed

5,85 billion people (assuming 6 billion or so for the population of earth) disagree with you

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby tl;dr

In the end you're just bitter because the leak was from the US. If the leak came from Russian or Chinese governments you would be doing cartwheels out of happiness.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Shoot him. Now. He is not supportive of a functioning world. He is a terrorist in the largest sense. I am more horrified over this mans actions than I am over the events of 9/11.

So this man has killed around 3000 people.
Can you confirm that?

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby If you can't vote them in, then take the government by force.

So they're entitled to have everyone help them keep their secrets, but they're not entitled to be allowed to exist?