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Originally posted by Radagast Why not?

Because you don't taste the atmosphere when you're sitting in front of your pc, that's why. I hate it when people judge dj's when they are just listening to sets they downloaded somewhere, but they never heard them in a real club.

The amazing thing about Armin is his interaction with the public, he always has a good time, he's always enjoying himself and he passes that feeling to the crowd.

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12" Chase: Vernon - Wonderer (Son Kite Remix)

The X-files - Closure (feat. Moby My Weakness)

Last edited by Eagle` on Apr-22-2004 at 21:04

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Originally posted by TOR that's my point, there's so many things involved that there's no point in arguing if a track is good or bad. all those aspects are different for each individual on this planet and contribute to the feeling a certain individual experiences when listening to a certain track. i repeat: it's a feeling, not an opinion he has formed about it after weighing up the pros and the contras. all those aspects contribute subconsciously to somebody's taste. Satellite can mean the world to somebody, while somebody else thinks of it as being cheesy. that's why it's impossible to debate about whether a track is good or bad, as you can't really explain why exactely you like a certain track.

But taste is arguable and worth debating. If I have an opinion about something according to my own personal values, why is it wrong to express it?

i think it's impossible to have an opinion about a track, because the way you feel about it depends on your taste, which is formed subconsciously by all those internal and external influences.

and that's something extremely complexe, you can't really put your finger on why you like a certain track. you can definitely express the feelings you experience while listening to a track, but because of the complexity of someone's taste, i don't think it's possible to give an explanation for enjoying a certain track, and thus there's no point in having a debate on that track.

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Originally texted by Jakhira Out with the dog at the moment. Chicks love him, and I love chicks... The world is in harmony

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Originally posted by TOR i think it's impossible to have an opinion about a track, because the way you feel about it depends on your taste, which is formed subconsciously by all those internal and external influences.

Man, in a free country, you can have an opinion about absolutely anything. An opinion is simply a personal appreciation, so saying "this track rules" or "this track sucks" is an opinion even if it's a half-assed attempt of expressing one's thoughts.

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and that's something extremely complexe, you can't really put your finger on why you like a certain track.

Yes, I can put my finger on WHY I like or not like a certain track. Feelings and appreciation values can be rationalized.

For example, I hate Burned with Desire because the singer cannot sing in tune (a fact), the lyrics are superficial and the production is in the cookie-cutter generic style that has been exploited to death for the last 5 years.

^That's an opinion, whether you like it or not. It's personal and subjective, so it qualifies as an opinion.

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you can definitely express the feelings you experience while listening to a track, but because of the complexity of someone's taste, i don't think it's possible to give an explanation for enjoying a certain track, and thus there's no point in having a debate on that track.

I just gave you an explanation about why I don't like a certain track, making your argument moot. Maybe there's no point in having a debate because you won't change someone else's opinion, but in this world of bandwagons and trends you definitely CAN influence someone else's opinion. But the main point of debating appreciation values (opinions) is simply having an intelligent discussion, that's it.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance Man, in a free country, you can have an opinion about absolutely anything. An opinion is simply a personal appreciation, so saying "this track rules" or "this track sucks" is an opinion even if it's a half-assed attempt of expressing one's thoughts.

that's an appreciation or a feeling, not an opinion. an opinion is based on a logical thinking process, ratio. that's different than emotion. liking a track is usually based on a feeling, which comes spontaneously. although it is possible to appreciate the technical aspects of a piece of music. but enjoying a track is usually the result of experiencing emotions.

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Yes, I can put my finger on WHY I like or not like a certain track. Feelings and appreciation values can be rationalized. For example, I hate Burned with Desire because the singer cannot sing in tune (a fact), the lyrics are superficial and the production is in the cookie-cutter generic style that has been exploited to death for the last 5 years. ^That's an opinion, whether you like it or not. It's personal and subjective, so it qualifies as an opinion.

those are technical aspects of a track, which also contribute to liking a track. i agree with you there. but from my own experience, i can tell that those technical aspects do not play the biggest role in the aprreciation process. i adore the G&D Remix of No One On Earth for example. when analysing the track objectively, i can see that the lyrics mean nothing, that the track is actually a very simple production, etc. but there's something about the harmonies, as a result of which i completely forget about the technical flaws. that's why i think liking a track is mainly caused by chords progression. and that's where my theory comes in. it's impossible to explain why a certain melody sends the shivers down my spine, whilst somebody else doesn't feel anything at all.

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I just gave you an explanation about why I don't like a certain track, making your argument moot. Maybe there's no point in having a debate because you won't change someone else's opinion, but in this world of bandwagons and trends you definitely CAN influence someone else's opinion. But the main point of debating appreciation values (opinions) is simply having an intelligent discussion, that's it.

i noticed the bandwagon 'problem'. however i think it's all in the mind. being influenced by other people makes some people blind to their true feelings, or makes them refuse to acknowledge them. like saying Justin Timberlake sucks because all your friends say that, while you actually like (even moderately) a track of his. you can influence the way somebody thinks about something, but not their true feelings.

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Originally texted by Jakhira Out with the dog at the moment. Chicks love him, and I love chicks... The world is in harmony

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Originally posted by TOR that's an appreciation or a feeling, not an opinion. an opinion is based on a logical thinking process, ratio. that's different than emotion. liking a track is usually based on a feeling, which comes spontaneously. although it is possible to appreciate the technical aspects of a piece of music. but enjoying a track is usually the result of experiencing emotions.

No, it is an opinion. Any belief based on your own appreciation, feeling or whatever can be defined as an opinion. Check a dictionary:

Opinion:A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

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those are technical aspects of a track, which also contribute to liking a track. i agree with you there. but from my own experience, i can tell that those technical aspects do not play the biggest role in the aprreciation process. i adore the G&D Remix of No One On Earth for example. when analysing the track objectively, i can see that the lyrics mean nothing, that the track is actually a very simple production, etc. but there's something about the harmonies, as a result of which i completely forget about the technical flaws. that's why i think liking a track is mainly caused by chords progression. and that's where my theory comes in. it's impossible to explain why a certain melody sends the shivers down my spine, whilst somebody else doesn't feel anything at all.

I like that remix too, but only the dub vocal-less remix that PvD spins.

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i noticed the bandwagon 'problem'. however i think it's all in the mind. being influenced by other people makes some people blind to their true feelings, or makes them refuse to acknowledge them. like saying Justin Timberlake sucks because all your friends say that, while you actually like (even moderately) a track of his. you can influence the way somebody thinks about something, but not their true feelings.

Education is also a principal factor of how taste is molded. Feelings are subjective and not static.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance No, it is an opinion. Any belief based on your own appreciation, feeling or whatever can be defined as an opinion. Check a dictionary: Opinion:A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

hmm.. apparently my definition of the term 'opinion' is different than yours.

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Education is also a principal factor of how taste is molded.

i'm not too sure about that, since education focusses on the developement of the mind. and taste is not in the mind, it's in your heart (metaphorically speaking).

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Originally texted by Jakhira Out with the dog at the moment. Chicks love him, and I love chicks... The world is in harmony

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Originally posted by TOR hmm.. apparently my definition of the term 'opinion' is different than yours.

haha. But it's not my definition, it's the actual definition in the English language. That's what the word factually means. Check any dictionary. Could it be that English is not your first language?

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i'm not too sure about that, since education focusses on the developement of the mind. and taste is not in the mind, it's in your heart (metaphorically speaking).

Education definitely does influence music appreciation and the development of taste. That's why most universities have music appreciation courses. A person who has never been exposed to a particular style of music will most likely not be able to understand it at first listen. That's why many people get introduced to edm through the commercial side, and then eventually are introduced to the good stuff, which might even lead to other genres that are more complex.

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Originally posted by PSi i remember ages ago (about 2.5 yrs) listening to his set at the Zoom in Israel. It was immense, he played some stunning stuff back then. Now i belive he is also in decline, his productions are stale and his sets dont have that unf! anymore. alas 1999. later, PSi

PSI has spoken folks

where da hell u been -_-

nice to see ya bak

someone must do something about uplifting trance as the majority sucks these days! i miss the older mind-blowing melodies...

yea, i agree. uplifting trance is good, if it gives you that fuzzy feeling inside, if it doesnt then its pointless.

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Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once. Space exists so everything doesn't happen to you

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Originally posted by YaleTrance haha. But it's not my definition, it's the actual definition in the English language. That's what the word factually means. Check any dictionary. Could it be that English is not your first language? Education definitely does influence music appreciation and the development of taste. That's why most universities have music appreciation courses. A person who has never been exposed to a particular style of music will most likely not be able to understand it at first listen. That's why many people get introduced to edm through the commercial side, and then eventually are introduced to the good stuff, which might even lead to other genres that are more complex.

Thats a really great theory and i happen to agree since it applies to me exactly. I was forced into listening to oakenfold sets (i liked the cheesy chart dance music at the time) and i liked the odd track in his sets, i then grew to love BT and it went from there... 5 years later and i'll listen to anything EDM, have a 2000 piece CD collection, DJ frequently, turned in an unnoficial remix that got played by ferry corsten on radio and now starting work for a major record label! it just shows how things grow on you!