yea i'm somewhere in the middle...leaning more towards being against gays...but like i said, i deal with it. i've had gay friends that i genuinely liked...as long as they didn't rant about their partner's penis size or sex life, everything was cool. lol

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My soliloquy may be hard for some to swallow, but so is cod liver oil.

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Originally posted by notelfreak man i can't believe i tried to come off as responsible in that other thread, i am so full of shit just don't tell anyone

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Originally posted by Seventil Well, if you believe a religious standpoint is wrong on the case of homosexuality - what standpoint do you take? If you take an evolutionists sort of view, homosexuality would lead to population decrease and eventual extinction. I like being all wrapped up in tradition. Call me old fashioned, but my heart yearns for a world where the virtue of a woman and chilvary actually existed. Men should not sleep with other men. As for other examples of "bullshit tradition"... let me hear what you've got. It's going to be a hard argument trying to convince people that the world was a worse place with some old traditions... BTW I'd say popular opinion is about 50/50 on this issue, so no need to defend the other team if you don't want to. I'm sure we'll attract some flaming left-siders sooner or later...

as i already explained a couple of pages ago...i'm really just indifferent to gays. its doesn't effect my life so i don't concern myself with it.

what i was refering to more was your idealized sense of the united states and its traditional forms of moral guidance. religion is my favorite subject to argue about hehehe...as i'm sure anyone who's been on the forums very long could probably tell you. i didn't say that i approached homosexuality from a religious standpoint, i said that religion is what clouds the mind and takes meaning away from things. your last post said that "homosexuality feels morally wrong" to you. that's a complete cop out answer. what that is saying is that i really don't have any answer to you question except that i believe it because that's what i was taught. well, where did you obtain those outlooks, those values? if i had to guess i would say your family and some sort of religious guidance. and to that i say the same thing that i always say...how can you put faith into something that you have not discovered yourself?

and of course...i always try to point out that if self discovery leads you to a certain religion, then i have nothing to argue with you about because you obviously have some reason for believing...i just wish that you might share that reasoning with me because i personally can't believe in something without a rationale understanding of it. and of course religious people will say that faith is believing in something that you can't prove and then i'll just say, but why do you have faith and then they'll say that i don't know...you just have to and then we'll just be right back where we were...bla bla bla.. life is too short hehehe

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Originally posted by Slylee yea i'm somewhere in the middle...leaning more towards being against gays...but like i said, i deal with it. i've had gay friends that i genuinely liked...as long as they didn't rant about their partner's penis size or sex life, everything was cool. lol

yeah thats me too...i mean i'm not for gays, but i'm not gonna tell them that they can't be gay.

another popular trend - burberry.. thoughts?

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

I'm not against gays, just against gay "marriage."

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller as i already explained a couple of pages ago...i'm really just indifferent to gays. its doesn't effect my life so i don't concern myself with it. what i was refering to more was your idealized sense of the united states and its traditional forms of moral guidance. religion is my favorite subject to argue about hehehe...as i'm sure anyone who's been on the forums very long could probably tell you. i didn't say that i approached homosexuality from a religious standpoint, i said that religion is what clouds the mind and takes meaning away from things. your last post said that "homosexuality feels morally wrong" to you. that's a complete cop out answer. what that is saying is that i really don't have any answer to you question except that i believe it because that's what i was taught. well, where did you obtain those outlooks, those values? if i had to guess i would say your family and some sort of religious guidance. and to that i say the same thing that i always say...how can you put faith into something that you have not discovered yourself?

You should spend more time in the Political forum with me.

I was raised by atheistical parents. I went to church but hated it. I didn't believe until about 2 years ago. I can actually say I have discovered it myself... I can share some stories with you if you want.

Anyway, in reference to this statement:

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i said that religion is what clouds the mind and takes meaning away from things.

From my standpoint - religion is what gives meaning to things. It's like what C.S. Lewis said: If religion is false, then it is of little importance. If it is true, then it is of the utmost importance.

So I find embracing the beliefs of what I and most of the country believe in to be very pertinent. I'm not saying be close-minded about everything - but using religion as a moral guide for our country is EXACTLY what we need - it's there to draw the lines when you should. (Like in this case)

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and of course...i always try to point out that if self discovery leads you to a certain religion, then i have nothing to argue with you about because you obviously have some reason for believing...i just wish that you might share that reasoning with me because i personally can't believe in something without a rationale understanding of it. and of course religious people will say that faith is believing in something that you can't prove and then i'll just say, but why do you have faith and then they'll say that i don't know...you just have to and then we'll just be right back where we were...bla bla bla.. life is too short hehehe

I know exactly why I have faith. - Life is meaningless without it (in my opinion) - If you take an atheistical, Fruedian outlook on life, you'll end up be just as decrepid and miserable as he was his entire life. Faith begins with getting rid of "pride" and being humble - and realizing that there are things in this world that you can't understand. Just don't stand on an untouchable, all-knowing intellectual chair like I did most of my life. You believe in what you believe in, for whatever purposes - but if you get past the stereotypes and stigma's of religion - you might actually like it.

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Originally posted by Seventil From my standpoint - religion is what gives meaning to things. It's like what C.S. Lewis said: If religion is false, then it is of little importance. If it is true, then it is of the utmost importance.

i was waiting for that hehehe . and i do see and understand that viewpoint. it however, does not justify belief in something to which my own explorations tell me isn't truth. i have nothing against religons, what i have a problem with is people blindly associating themselves with them simply because its whats common. if you've come to this conclusion on your own...then that is great...good for you.

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I know exactly why I have faith. - Life is meaningless without it (in my opinion) - If you take an atheistical, Fruedian outlook on life, you'll end up be just as decrepid and miserable as he was his entire life. Faith begins with getting rid of "pride" and being humble - and realizing that there are things in this world that you can't understand. Just don't stand on an untouchable, all-knowing intellectual chair like I did most of my life. You believe in what you believe in, for whatever purposes - but if you get past the stereotypes and stigma's of religion - you might actually like it.

see i don't agree with that. i think that if you rely on your religion because you have no reason for life otherwise, then that is kinda sad. and i don't think that maintaining a non-religious lifestyle will lead to a miserable life, quite the opposite in fact. there is a difference between being non-religious and being pessimistic about everything.

i would also say that i am quite humble. i do not expect to understand everything in the world, but at the same time i feel no shame in trying to obtain as much knowledge as i can to explain that which i believe. and to my discovery, there is nothing logical about religion and therefore i don't place any faith in it.

i'm sure a religious approach to life can be quite enjoyable as you said, but i cannot sit and ignorantly ignore my desire to know and in effect lie to myself in order to be religious when i truly feel the opposite.

Im still waiting for someones argument as to the "rightness" of homosexuality. Im sick of defending my point of view, lets turn it around a bit shall we?

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Originally posted by Orbax Im still waiting for someones argument as to the "rightness" of homosexuality. Im sick of defending my point of view, lets turn it around a bit shall we?

amen to that..here waiting with u

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Originally posted by Orbax Im still waiting for someones argument as to the "rightness" of homosexuality. Im sick of defending my point of view, lets turn it around a bit shall we?

i don't think it can be proven right .

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i don't think it can be proven right .

What I dont get, in the end, is how people can viciously attack your stance, and you for having it, yet have no real opinion on their own except being Not-You.