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Originally posted by PETRAN In the end of the day its all EDM. It is all made in the same way, using similar synths and stuff. If its good its good. Why fight so hard about what constitutes a specific genre? Is it something like a teenage fan-boy thing? "the trance-cyber-kids", "the electro-trenddies" etc. etc. etc.? I find it a bit stupid.

"What genre do you like?"
"Electro."
"Oh, like Fedde Le Grand?"
"Oh fuck no! Like Mantronix!"

Hence, genre splits are born.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nobody here would call trance "rap" or rap "trance," because they're not the same thing, even though they're both types of EDM and are both made with a sequencer, drum samples / drum machines, synths, and samplers.

I don't consider rap to be part of EDM lol.(a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s) Anyway, i didn't say that we should drop all genre classifications. Its ok to have the basic distinctions e.g. house, techno, trance, they are usefull for guidance thats true. It is the extensive SUB-genre classification that is stupid and useless e.g. epic trance, electro house, porn-techno. Such extensive classifications do nothing more then stereotype music and artists and limit one's musical taste (especially some highly conforming people who usually want to be "part" of, or strictly belong to a movement or group.)

It would be better to drop such extensive sub-genre classifications all together. The majority of EDM is extremely identical if you look at the basic structure. There is a simple 4/4 rhtyhm, a hooky lead-line, a looped bass...its the sounds and the way they are used that causes the illusion that there are "strict" and "sharp" differences. A better way to look at thinks is to see all music as a continuum, where bad music lies at one end and good at the other. The basic classifications can be used as guides, but not to the point to influence one's musical taste. This is my opinion anyway.

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Originally posted by PETRAN a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s

oh god...

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Originally posted by PETRAN I don't consider rap to be part of EDM lol.(a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s)

Rap, especially rap from the '80s onward, is electronic music made to be played out in clubs and for people to dance to. Electronic music made for people to dance to is EDM.

Anyway, stuff you might consider "EDM" -- house, garage, techno -- was already around in the early to mid '80s and was being played out in clubs. It was not "invented somewhere in the '90s."

The term "EDM" may not have been -- I don't really know or care -- but what does that matter? The word "Renaissance" wasn't used to refer to Michelangelo's works when they were made, but we still use it to refer to them now.

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Anyway, i didn't say that we should drop all genre classifications. Its ok to have the basic distinctions e.g. house, techno, trance, they are usefull for guidance thats true.

So are classifications like "prog trance" and "goa trance." People who like one of those genres many times won't like the other, and sometimes they'll even make fun of it, even though they both listen to types of trance.

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A better way to look at thinks is to see all music as a continuum, where bad music lies at one end and good at the other.

Taxonomy and aesthetic judgment are two different things.

Last edited by MrJiveBoJingles on Jan-26-2007 at 19:58

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Anyway, stuff you might consider "EDM" -- house, garage, techno -- was already around in the early to mid '80s and was being played out in clubs. It was not invented "somewhere in the '90s."

Yes, genres such as house were originated in the mid-80s, but the term "EDM" was used much later to collectively describe house, techno, trance etc. etc. Rap was made with electronic equipment but i consider it to be different then EDM e e.g. rap was not made strictly for dancing, was usually much slower, it had extensive vocals etc. etc. etc. i don't know if a rapper considers himself to play "EDM" music. Anyway, as it was said before its down to subjectivity and how everyone catgorises things.

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So are classifications like "prog trance" and "goa trance." People who like one of those genres many times won't like the other, and sometimes they'll even make fun of it, even though they both listen to types of trance.

These classifications are useless in my opinion and unfortunately few music lovers behave in the nice and open-minded ways you describe. I think that this over-extensive clasification can be damaging, not only for the listener but for the musician as well. Since genres come to "represent" different values, musicians would tend to strictly play the sounds of the sub-genre that they are assigned to. Furthermore they will refuse to be musically open to other genres, especially in the case that these other genres are considered inferior to the genre which the specific artist is assigned to. Imagine now that the distinctions "prog", "psy" and "epic" trance edidn't exist at all. How much more varied sounds would we get without the "political orientations" that govern these genres?

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Taxonomy and aesthetic judgment are two different things.

Nop they are not. In contrast to the animal kingdom, in the case of music, where in the end of the day its very nature is embodied in aesthetic acoustics (thats its only function) taxonomy can directly influence aesthetic judgement. In the case of music, taxonomy can even shape aesthetic judgement. As a result it can become dangerous. Its better to leave the over-extensive classification for science then. Art is there to be free, not to be constrained.

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Originally posted by PETRAN Yes, genres such as house were originated in the mid-80s, but the term "EDM" was used much later to collectively describe house, techno, trance etc. etc. Rap was made with electronic equipment but i consider it to be different then EDM e e.g. rap was not made strictly for dancing, was usually much slower, it had extensive vocals etc. etc. etc.

It doesn't matter if something was made strictly for dancing. You can sit at home in a recliner and listen to a waltz and have a good time of it if waltzes are your thing, but that doesn't mean that a waltz isn't a kind of dance music.

Rappers make electronic music and expect people to dance to it. It's EDM.

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Furthermore they will refuse to be musically open to other genres, especially in the case that these other genres are considered inferior to the genre which the specific artist is assigned to.

That's unfortunate, but trying to ask people like this to stop being narrow-minded and "bigoted" about music is pretty futile. Probably ever since there has been more than one kind of music listeners who like one type have made fun of listeners who like other types.

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As a result it can become dangerous. Its better to leave the over-extensive classification for science then. Art is there to be free, not to be constrained.

We're all dealing with the same tracks. Some tracks have supersaws, others don't. Some tracks have 303s and others don't. Some people hate 303s and love supersaws. Others hate supersaws and love 303s. Some people hate big breakdowns, others love them.

Genre names just make it easier to let other people know what you like and don't like. The objective elements of the tracks are the same no matter how you classify them. The names are shorthand for saying things like, "Oh, I like the sort of tracks that go at such and such a speed, use such and such types of synths, have a such and such bassline, have this kind of breakdown, have this sort of vocals," on and on and on. That's all it is.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles That's unfortunate, but trying to ask people like this to stop being narrow-minded and "bigoted" about music is pretty futile. Probably ever since there has been more than one kind of music listeners who like one type have made fun of listeners who like other types.

Hehe. I can just picture it in Pre-Historic times now...

Grog: "I like Rock-On-Rock."
Gorg: "You music suck. Club-On-Rock better!"
Rorg: "N00bs! Club-On-Tree-Trunk true art."

___________________
Everyone has an opinion. Mine just happens to be a little more informed than most.
Electronic Music Critic: Near-Daily Ruminations Of Music I Own, In Alphabetical Order!

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Originally posted by PETRAN a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s)

House and techno also existed long before the 90s. Ergo they are not EDM either, correct?

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I really don't mind a new genre if the person who creates it knows what he's talking about.

That is obviously not the case here. Ferry Corsten is, and will always be, a trancetwat.

who the fuck associated rap with trance. why are we even talking about rap now, once again mrjivejobingles does a great job. haha:

that is the worst comparison ive ever heard to try and get your point across about trance

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Originally posted by distant electro is a sub genre of house, if its not house wat genre is it then genius?