quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Is killing 60 innocent lebanese civilians (so far) along with bombing a whole nation... really worth the trouble of getting two soldiers back this way?

It's worth as many lives as it will take. Apparently, they think each soldier is worth 1,000 prisoners, so Israel isnt the one setting the prices.
The one thing I have noticed about the middle east is that they only submit to power. The time for diplomacy has come and gone, and Israel's enemies have made it very clear how they want the game to be played.
SUX2BSYRIAN/IRANIAN/LEBANESE/PALESTINIAN.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r There's no opinions or validity to be had here. You actually think they're just randomly picking houses to bomb?? And what makes you think they're NOT looking?? Why do you think they crossed the border!? Maybe you should consider the validity of your arguments....

Um. Let's start with your first statement. It adds no value to your argument.

Second.. I didn't say they were picking random houses to bomb. They aren't. It was used as a rhetorical qusetion to illustrate my point that bombing bridges, power plants and airports is random and serves no purpose.

Third.. I didn't say they weren't looking. Once again, if they are looking, bombing civilian infrastructure does not serve your cause.

Fourth. I don't think that my argument is invalid as I have questioned the necessity to blockade an entire country.. Kill 50+ civilians to find two soldiers. You have not been able to justify the actions I have questioned. Why cannot the israelis use their drones to fly overhead and search for the soldiers.. or use the Mossad to find their whereabouts? Bombing a country will not suddenly bring them out.

A final point. The israeli government is using strongarm tactics to persuade the lebanese government to turn over the soldiers. Since we have already established that the lebanese government maintains no control over the operations of Hizbollah, is it not pointless to coerce them with military force? It's like trying to yell at a deaf person.

btw.. the smilies really don't do anything to further your case.

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My greatest accomplishment in life is that I've lived this long.

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Originally posted by ronk damn, you really didn't understand, this whole time, that Hamas kidnapped Gilad Shalit? Hamas is the palestinian government for fuck's sake! did you see the Israeli government kidnapping palestinians? and besides, this 'organization' kidnapped the two palestinians AFTER the kidnapping of Shalit, as a result. it's kind of a different thing. edit: plus, Shalit kidnapping has nothing to do with the bombings in the north (at least, in my opinion).

The problem there is that Hamas has not taken responsibility for the kidnapping. What we do know is that another group has taken responsibility. If this situation is true, then Hamas is not directly responsible for the kidnapping. Granted, there are linkages, but, that's all they are... an example would be how Michael Moore drew linkages between the Bush clan and the Saudi royal family.

I'm actually kind of disappointed that you would imply that it is ok for jewish extremists to retaliate in the same manner. I hold both sides to the same standard. Just because it happened after does not make it any less of a crime. At least it is in my opinion.

as for your edit.. I don't know. It is totally possible that Hizbollah observed the reaction of Israel (when Gilad Shalit was captured) and saw an opportunity to escalate the conflict in the region. Like I said in the other thread: "It's not worth it.." (to use overwhelming force to get Gilad Shalit back) as some others could have seen it as an opportunity. Now, this has claimed maybe 100 lives.. and some of israeli lives. So what is happening is that more blood is being spilled (and many innocent lives at that) and nothing is being accomplished.

To say that Israel is currently having a successful operation... would be complete denial. Three soldiers are still missing.. and a bunch dead.

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My greatest accomplishment in life is that I've lived this long.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Israel is playing the crazy card. This card, played much by notable american presidents such as JFK and Ronald Regan, as well as Iran, and North Korea, serves great in detering future armed conflict. This might not be good for Israel's short term or even larger long term political strategy, but what is for sure, from now on, terrorists and nations will think twice before kidnapping Israelis and violating their borders.

So did the Sharon administration fuck up by not playing the "crazy card" in 2004? Was that the impetus for what we're seeing today? Why not right? This all boils down to the simple fact that the foreign policies of Ohlmert are remarkadly different from that of Sharon. And regardless of whether you're pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli I would enjoy any effort to comprehensevly justify or villify the actions of both in the same sentence.

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Jul-14-2006 at 07:38

"Report: Growing calls in Lebanon to disarm Hizbullah.
Washington Post quotes Lebanese officials as criticizing organization for escalation on Israel border. Government states it has right, duty to extend control to Southern Lebanon"

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...3275469,00.html

Those statments can ofcourse change in a any second, but lets hope they won't.

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* Infected Mushroom - B.P.Empire

i just want to let everyone here know that the Bush doctrine has prohibited all out war in this crucial jucture in Middle East politics. the next time all out war among these countries happens, the Bush doctrine will have been long forgotten.

yay Bush doctrine!!!

now bring the hate.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i just want to let everyone here know that the Bush doctrine has prohibited all out war in this crucial jucture in Middle East politics. the next time all out war among these countries happens, the Bush doctrine will have been long forgotten. yay Bush doctrine!!! now bring the hate.

could you elaborate? i dont understand

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus This might not be good for Israel's short term or even larger long term political strategy, but what is for sure, from now on, terrorists and nations will think twice before kidnapping Israelis and violating their borders.

...because that's what has happened to date. hamas has been violating the border for years sending in the suiciders. I guess they'll stop now?

How long will it be before Israel sends their jets to Iran? I give it 12 months.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN could you elaborate? i dont understand

first, you have to be willing to admit that the strategic divide and conquer scheme of the greater Mid-East powers Iraq/Syria, Iran/Afghanistan was successful in, at the very least, isolating Iran and Syria politically more than geographically - Iran more than Syria and at cost no doubt.

second, it has shown to all Arab leaders from Mubarak to Musharraf, from Faud to Asad that America, the worlds only credible superpower is willing stay indefinately and sacrifice ultimately to demonstrate what true Arab/Muslim moderation potential can bring. i think most Arab/Muslims know this potential. i believe they can see it through the jihadist propaganda.

the mere presence of America right now is actually preventing large scale stupidity on the part of extremists. thats obvious. in the long term, i think moderate Arab/Muslims will appreciate what America is willing to suffer.

there is more to this but i'm getting off work now. come back later.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i just want to let everyone here know that the Bush doctrine has prohibited all out war in this crucial jucture in Middle East politics. the next time all out war among these countries happens, the Bush doctrine will have been long forgotten. yay Bush doctrine!!! now bring the hate.

Bush doctrine, yeah that's working real well, whatever that is. Honestly do you see him getting anywhere with Vladmir in Saint Petersburg. He calls Putin friend while Russia pours scorn on them in the world media. He goes to Russia bearing gifts of WTO membership movement and other trade conditions while Russia and China continues to run circle around their policies in Iran and North Korea, yeah some friends. Face it I am no left wing(Howard Dean) or right wing(see Ann Coulter) wingut, I just see a man who has a lot on his plate to deal with and has little leverage to get it done, so that "mysterious doctrine" must be hidden in the sands of Iraq along with those WMD's

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ^^ thats the reason we all laugh at your opinions in the PDD. cretin.

See two people or more than two actually got it that I was joking. However, penis stuck up your ass(thats you) doesn't understand a joke so fuck off cretin.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo first, you have to be willing to admit that the strategic divide and conquer scheme of the greater Mid-East powers Iraq/Syria, Iran/Afghanistan was successful in, at the very least, isolating Iran and Syria politically more than geographically - Iran more than Syria and at cost no doubt. second, it has shown to all Arab leaders from Mubarak to Musharraf, from Faud to Asad that America, the worlds only credible superpower is willing stay indefinately and sacrifice ultimately to demonstrate what true Arab/Muslim moderation potential can bring. i think most Arab/Muslims know this potential. i believe they can see it through the jihadist propaganda. the mere presence of America right now is actually preventing large scale stupidity on the part of extremists. thats obvious. in the long term, i think moderate Arab/Muslims will appreciate what America is willing to suffer. there is more to this but i'm getting off work now. come back later.

No matter how much it is spun, just like we use the veto to protect Israel at the U.N. Security Council, the Chinese and Russians will do so to protect their interests in Iran. Therefore any notion of divide and conquer in relation to the actions of the U.S. in the Middle East is one that is on thin ice. The reality is that the U.S. cannot build a consensus to get its positions implemented at the U.N. against the likes of North Korea and Iran. I don't know when you will admit it Q5echo but the biggest catatlyst Iran will be protected unless Georgie can get Vlad to play ball with sanctions, fat chance on that.

By weakening Iraq we have only served to strengthen Iran in the Middle East that runs counter to your point of divide and conquer. I mean who stood the most to benefit from Iraq(Shias) being given power, yep Iran. Iran has even in no uncertain terms warned Israel that any attack on Syria will be met with a fierce response, it may be talk, it may not. Let's hope we don't find out. Your notion of divide and conquer is shortsighted because the biggest and most powerful benefactor is still in play, stronger than before the "elusive Bush doctrine" extended to Iraq.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras