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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Yeah, I'm definitely anti-choice. I don't agree with something that could be exploited by asshole fathers, so I guess I am a nazi communist too. I also hate kittens and freedom.

Nah, it is just that the "consequence-free sex" line is also a favorite of tyrannical righties.

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Originally posted by Arbiter I'd really prefer the government not get involved in these types of situations in any way. Let nature take its course.

This has to be one of the silliest things I have ever read from you.

Let nature take its course?

So in other words, let thousands upon thousands of shitty parents run off without having to face their responsibilities? Let children be left on the street or in dumpsters, or wherever? Let kids go to alcoholic, abusive parents etc. etc.

That is just stupid.

Sorry... I don't give human kind THAT much credit.

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Originally posted by all-nite-freak pulling out only works if you aim for the eye...its true, they told me that at planned parentood

You forgot to add, that in order for that to work, it has to happen during doggy-style sex when you pull out, spit on her back to fool her, and then shoot it in her eye once she has turned around, thinking you have finished. Please don't leave out the important stuff.

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Originally posted by Arbiter I'd really prefer the government not get involved in these types of situations in any way. Let nature take its course.

I trust the government to mostly waste my money on civil projects which are too few and usually too late, suck up massive amounts of superannuation and end up as 'wards of the state' after they retire anyway.

Trusting them to raise your kids?
Never!

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nah, it is just that the "consequence-free sex" line is also a favorite of tyrannical righties.

Uh-ohhhh, that must make it completely and utterly incorrect, then.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Nope, but it is inconsistent to apply it to one side of the equation and not to the other.

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Originally posted by Jansa You forgot to add, that in order for that to work, it has to happen during doggy-style sex when you pull out, spit on her back to fool her, and then shoot it in her eye once she has turned around, thinking you have finished. Please don't leave out the important stuff.

im rusty and used to the pill or depo shot my bad.That move is only for period buttsechs

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nope, but it is inconsistent to apply it to one side of the equation and not to the other.

The world is not a uniform place. Inconsistency is a necessary chaos.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I read the first 2 pages (40ppp) of this thread. I keep seeing the same logical argument repeated ad nauseam by MrJive that noone has been able to refute. "Man up" or "that's life" are not logical arguments. It's very simple: Are you pro equal choice, or are you not? If you're not, that is sexist.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Yeah, I'm definitely anti-choice. I don't agree with something that could be exploited by asshole fathers, so I guess I am a nazi communist too.

How? By the time it's time to decide whether an abortion should be carried out or not, the woman should be aware of the man's intentions of either staying or leaving, and she should act accordingly. That is, raise the kid herself with no help from the father whatsoever, or have the abortion.

If you're against abortion, tough luck, because that was also your choice.

And don't even bother shooting the old crap about not having sex if you can't take the consequences. I'm willing to bet everyone in this thread is very much for "sex for pleasure". And really, who needs the stress of worrying about a child when you're fucking?

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Originally posted by Theresa So in other words, let thousands upon thousands of shitty parents run off without having to face their responsibilities?

As opposed to what? Making them pay cash instead? Well, certainly you must realize that there's more to their "responsibilities" than financial provision. Whether they pay, or don't - they aren't facing their responsibilities either way, and there's no way to force them to be good parents.

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Let children be left on the street or in dumpsters, or wherever? Let kids go to alcoholic, abusive parents etc. etc.

Well, that's the equivalent of what every other species does when they have offspring that they are unwilling or unable to raise, and it seems to work satisfactorily for them. Of course, it would be nice if we could aspire to be better than that. But you can't force people to do the right thing - and forcing them to go half-way only exacerbates the problem in two ways:

1. Children are more likely to survive in spite of having parents who will never raise them properly, and their unfortunate circumstances will then affect them for a longer period of time, while also creating possible social problems for others.
2. It is probable that more women would choose to do the right thing (abort) if the alternative were less attractive. Lots of single mothers are getting paid child support, and spending most of that money on themselves and not the child. Take that possibility away, and maybe they would have never had the child.

If there were some magic wand that the government could wave and ensure that all children get the upbringing that they require, then that would be great. But the illusion that we can just extract cash from the "responsible" parties and throw that at the situation, and then it's being "dealt with" is not one which is productive to any of the parties involved.

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Originally posted by distant "Man up" or "that's life" are not logical arguments.

"Why" "not" "?"

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How? By the time it's time to decide whether an abortion should be carried out or not, the woman should be aware of the man's intentions of either staying or leaving, and she should act accordingly. That is, raise the kid herself with no help from the father whatsoever, or have the abortion. If you're against abortion, tough luck, because that was also your choice.

Because all it would take is for a father to say "I never approved of a child" and he would be resolved of all responsibility. Even if it were a complete lie, how would you ever verify it either way? The same also applies to women in the current situation. All it takes is a single lie. How can you choose one side over the other unless you are sexist?

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And don't even bother shooting the old crap about not having sex if you can't take the consequences. I'm willing to bet everyone in this thread is very much for "sex for pleasure". And really, who needs the stress of worrying about a child when you're fucking?

Everything has its price though. The entire universe is action and reaction - attempting to remove any consequence is just trading one set of problems for another.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.