|
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
well, ive had exactly the same argument with him. |
About Gun Control?
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN again, in the midst of a global war, it is reasonably easy for a small band of people to prove problematic for a greater force. but, since we are talking about the US and the 2nd amendment, and the US is far from the third reich (despite what trancer might think) and is at peace in the homeland, i cant see how you think it is possible.[/QUOET]
pfft..it certainly does NOT look possible anytime in my lifetime, but that doesn't mean that it could NEVER happen, nor does it mean that protecting against it will NEVER be necessary.
The same great group of guys who brought us all of our other guaranteed freedoms...all bound together in a Constitution that has innumerable, mutually protective, checks and balances built in to it...are the same ones that saw fit to add the right to bear arms; The right to speak freely. To Vote. Freedom or religion. Freedom to address the government with grievances, etc. The concept of guaranteed freedom from oppression by one's government is no more out of date today, than it was back then.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN that's just wrong. the branch davidians didnt "hold" anyone off. the ATF & FBI deliberately held off, no doubt for PR reasons, not to mention the number of children in the complex. they could've stormed that place with a riot tank anytime they wanted, but (shock horror!) the state often goes to incredible lengths NOT to harm its citizens. |
They shot several agents when they tried to storm in, then they backed off, negotiated for a month, then went back in with armored personnel carriers. I'd say they did a pretty damn well with just a few rifles on hand.
| quote: | | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN which is exactly the point. i dont trust your average moronic person with the latest technology for stealing life. im sorry, too many fucktards in the world, as evidenced by your MASSIVE firearm homicide rate each year. |
I'll take my chances at being the victim of a random gun crime (which by the way, is about 10 times lower than it is of dying in a car accident), as opposed to being a potential victim of mass genocide.
Historically, MILLIONS more people have died at the hands of their own out of control government, than have ever died at the hands of your run-of-the-mill criminal.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN NO. that's NOT what i said donny, and you know it. i want to know how it can DEFEND against the state....
also, i think you'll find IEDs have had a far greater impact than snipers. do you support the right to bear explosives? |
Well, as Arbitor partially correctly pointed out, the right to bear arms wasn't exactly meant to extend only to firearms. We can already buy gun powder in canisters over the counter here, so in a sense, we already have the right to bear explosives. But you don't see IED's going off constantly here, now do you? 
| quote: | | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, i think the suggestion is absurd, considering the might of the nazi military at the time... |
I already provided you with an example of how a few Jews with rifles not only held off a MUCH larger troop of German Soldiers, but they actually managed to kill a few of them too! We're talking about fewer than a dozen people here. And you STILL want to argue that SIX MILLION armed people couldn't have made a difference? 
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN right. so the hutus, instead of butchering the tutsis with machetes, would have used AK47s instead. what's your point? and again, even if firearms could have made a POSITIVE difference, the US isnt fucking rwanda for christ's sake. weren't you the one trumpeting the virtues of the american state re the judiciary etc?
|
My point is that had the Tutsis all been armed with guns, MANY more would have lived. It was yet another prime example of an out of control governmental perpetuating genocide on it's people....an occurance that YOU think is "outdated" and can't happen anymore in our "civilized" world anymore, so we should all be disarmed as a result.
| quote: | | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN name a modern liberal democracy (like the US or Oz) that has done so. again, we're talking about the 2nd amendment, you need to use examples that you can relate to the US. |
lol...why does it have to be a "liberal democracy" in order to have any merit? Not all countries that even start out this way (or are currently this way) or necessarily going to end up this way!
Look; it happened in Germany (Hitler's rise to power), it happened in Cambodia, in Rwanda, etc...the concept of Dictatorship is alive and well in humanity. You're kidding yourself if you think the danger of it never occurring again in certain countries...or all countries for that matter...is over. Don't you ever read a history book?
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
no, not at all. youre creating a fictitious (and incredibly unlikely) possibility to justify something. THAT's the weak argument. |
Hey, I'M not the one who put the right to bear arms in the Constitution for the purpose of protecting the people from their own Government, the Founding Fathers did! I'm not making anything up or dreaming up any paranoid conspiracy theories...I'm just telling you who put it there and why.
You should ask yourself why it is that you find all of their other major contributions to the Constitution so worthy of respect, yet you are willing to shit all over the 2nd Am.? If they were brilliant enough to think up the concepts that they did, perhaps you should open up your mind a little more and consider that maybe they put just as much thought in to the 2nd Am. right as they did the rest of our rights...and therefor, maybe it has serious merit?
___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do
|
while i think your current administration is an absolute disgrace, i cannot, for the life of me, 
