| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Just use 2048bit .wav format. Problem solved. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
What is the highest possible quality you can get in digital audio?
How high do the numbers go..I don't care if there is no difference, i just want to know how HIGH do they go? What would i need to do to make an audio file of the highest setting possible? |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Was going to see if there is any, at all,difference between the norm and supreme high quality. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
No it won't unless there is a sudden surge of listeners who encode their own mp3s. The end product is what YOu release, not what people do to it.
That is like Lamborghini selling a pile of junk because "the end result will be a car wreck"... |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
320 isn't the highest bitrate you can get with mp3. And most people I know listen to wavs |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
You can get wavs for music, and it doesn't have to be a released CD :P I know people who dj and they just use wavs [i wonder if they are still djs?] ..and nothing else.
Also you can use .ogg |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Yes, but isn't it mp3 because artist like the people in this thread say "thats the standard so that is what i use"? Artists make the standard you know. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
If everyone only released FLAC companies would be forced to make their players support FLAC. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
The internet is able to run because of Linux. And Apache. Without those two there wouldn't be any internet.
I think you give Linux a lot less than it deserves. Same with .ogg. Also .ogg isn't obscure, any popular player that does mp3 does .ogg My 40 dollar samsung generi3 player plays .ogg. And I'm sure ipod and other high end equipment supports .ogg
Hardware support isn't even an issue with .ogg, the only reason its not the most popular is because no one knows about it. As is the nature of open source. Same with Linux. It may not be the majority on consumer pcs..but who gives a fuck? 95% of the internet uses Apache and Linux type systems. Plenty of organizations also use it, such as the Us government, and many other governments around the world.
When it comes to running any type of network, Linux is the only option. And its increasingly easy to use Linux desktop these days. Once people get tired of this Microsoft drm crap, and Linux gets popular, Linux will eventually be the major desktop. In a year or two I won't even have any need for windows in any aspect of my music production. And everything I use will be free. And most games are wine compatible 6-8 months after they are released.
Blu-Ray got popular because Hollywood seen it as a better way to copy protect their stuff. Of course copy-protection is futile. But none the less that is why its the dominate format, it had nothing to do with what people bought or wanted. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Ok? They forced people to use blu-ray because they stopped supporting the HD format in their releases. And they did that only because they thing it will make it harder to copy media, and for no other reason. Had nothing to do with marketing in the advertisement sense.
People in general don't make preferences, they are given a preference and they accept it.
As for being FOSS..who cares if its free? Its not following the agenda of major studios and companies. People don't use linux because its free , they use it because when they do they arn't herded into different standards like people who use a mac or windows os. They don't have to worry about vendor lock-in and all this other crap. And as for businesses, i don't know who you have spoken to, but all the ones ive seen use linux, our local McDonalds uses linux systems. So does the pcs ive seen at the FedEx hub.
The point is in windows you have no control over the direction the software takes, and software companies are inherently working in their favor not ours. And Mac is just fucking shit no one but the queerest person could ever get use out of. No one is talking about better or worse, its about control. Having control over the software you use is more efficient than dealing with bugs in other software and hoping the company cares enough to fix them [then charge 200$ more for ths fix cough ableton cough]
You can use windows [presets] or you can use linux and program your own thing :P Actually that is a good comparison, people who use windows vs linux, and people who use presets vs programming their own sound. People who stick with cookie cutter genera vs people who are creative and make up their own genera. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Ubuntu out of the box does everything windows does. Where is this idea of no usability consistency and compatibility?
Those were issues in 1999, not 2009. Welcome to the new decade.
And I mean "out of the box" no configuration required. You have to install wine and the restricted-extras. Both of those are 1 command each. With that you can do anything a normal windows user can do. And if you can't, you will in 2 months.
People don't use Linux because A. they don't know it exists, and B. they haven't used it in 20 years and think its still a clunky command prompt UNIX system used to run servers.
In the last 8 or so years Linux desktop distros have doubled their capacity each year almost. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
So why are you using Windows?
I'm not a Linux-rager, you are just not making sense to me, you want things to just 'work'..yet you use an OS that is incapable of just 'working'
It boggles the mind I tell ya!
For the blu-ray stuff, what ever you have to tell yourself. Changes in the economy of technology don't happen because of what any of the consumers do. Formats are made and pushed, and technologies are invented based on what ever benefits the companies. We use the very unstable blu-ray format now because sony said they can stop piracy. And hollywood bought into it. And because of that crap we are stuck with an inferior format.
As for the guy above. Winamp does work on Linux, though I don't know why you would want that bloatware. Get Amarok it does everything winamp does. I think your issue was more you not knowing how to do what you want, not so much of the OS not capable of doing what you want. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
You have to compile software on Linux? Been using it for years, ive never had to do that. Apt-get is your friend. Ive never had driver issues either.
I think the issue has nothing to do with compatibility or consistency, it has to do with people being to lazy or unwilling to learn how a computer should work. And if that is the case they shouldn't be using a PC.
Though someone who has been using "Click Next" windows for 20 years, I don't blame them for being content.
I was in a discussion about MDI and SDI GUI recently. Very similar to this.
vhs stuff:
During this format war there was no company pushing a certain format in order to gain more control over the content people are exposed to. In blu-ray vs hddvd this is the case. That is the crux of the format war between blu-ray and hddvd. Which format gave companies more control over what people were exposed to. And piracy was used as the excuse for these bogus ass features in blu-ray.
And DRM is an issue, I'm on a certain video game company forum full of people who are basically admitting to pirating a game made in 2009 because of the copy-protection that it has and how it installs rootkit technology without the person knowing and degrades performance.
Google starforce. Stuff like this degrades performance majorly. And with moves like blu-ray this technology will be even more and more shoved into everything. Windows Vista is a perfect example. Because of "protection" technology doing anything in vista requires twice the amount of resources as it does in XP. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
No, Cubase doesn't run on Linux. Cubase isn't your average user program either. :P Though, I'm about to drop Cubase anyways, so who knows.
--
palm:
You mention not wanting to switch to linux and stuff, so why are you trying to use mac and logic? Your going to have to learn new stuff with mac also. As for Ubuntu running slow, don't use the PC from 92 then :P
This "i want things easy" mentality doesn't help software and the future of computing in anyway.
In 2019 your PC will be nothing more than an Xbox with a keyboard and mouse, and all your software will be available Only through an xbox live type of service. You will have absolutly no control over your pc in any way. And because you have to use a proprietary service to get any software, you won't be able to mod or change that machine because of TPM like technology. And don't forget since the software service will be controlled by one company, so will every piece of content on it. Of course you also have to add in every single charge they will tack on for the software you want to download. Imagin trying to be an artist, any hardware you try to attach to this "pc" [if it even allows 3rd party peripherals] will need to be verified by the company before its allowed access to the cpu. There goes any hardware you thought you were going to use in music production, and after that, you will need permission to upload your music [if they allow it] to share with anyone. With this being the case, a few years later they could make it illegal to have a computer not part of this system. They can make up any excuse they want, piracy, terrorism, what ever. The pc will be like the television, you accept what is on it or you don't use it.
This system is already in existence, its called Xbox live. Now just transpose that system on to general pcs.
That is the goal of companies like Trusted Computing, who ARE winning this battle. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Windows doesn't run Amarok, so windows is bad.
Discussion over. [this is what you just said]
ps Cubase only works on linux if you use the h20 dongle emulator, because cubase uses an obscure dongle technology used by no one else, so there isn't much incentive to implement it into Wine. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
A waste of time because I decimated your point? Nice. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Its a fallacy to say that because I say one thing, but do another, that my statement is wrong. Fail.
I should take a break from this forum for awhile..I start learning how ignorant people are and can do nothing but fight them.
No one has proven my opinion wrong once in this thread.
So why don't you shut the fuck up and go some where, drama queen? We are having a simple discussion about OSes and you come in trying to be a debtor. And you failed at that. No one is debating anything, and this isn't [wasn't] and argument. Learn etiquette before you open your mouth. Always gotta have SOMEONE to fuck up a thread. Just because people are talking and disagreeing on topics doesn't mean a debate is going on. We are discussing our opinions on OS, yeah it went offtopic so? The bit-rate topic isn't any more sane. And no one is forcing their opinion on anyone else.
Well, no more OS talk, lets talk about bit-rates.
32bit-rate is no real different than 16-bit in general. Yes it matters in EDM. Wow, thread is done.  |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Well, Ive not used Logic so I don't know much about it, Reason is pretty darn limited. All I can say is if you want windows, then try cubase or flstudio. I would say ableton also, but from the ableton thread I understand its not the best atm. I mostly support flstudio because its what ive used for years, ive been trying cubase, and i mostly end up pissed off [key editor] and load up flstudio instead. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Funny, FLStudio with Full VSTi support and Paintshop Pro 9 both run on Ubuntu...out of the box. Your parents should be slapped for using proprietary office software, its their fault they have vendor lock in and are forced to use crappy Ms products. Flash problem? You just made that up. Name a game, and it runs on ubuntu.
You are forgetting Wine , it runs up to direct x 10 compatible games. Without configuration needed. And of course it runs DAW with VSTi support, and programs like paintshop or photoshop. And wine was doing this 4 years ago. There is no need to port shit over when it runs natively on Linux with Wine. Think of wine as simply a library or resource used to enable windows software on linux. And it does just that. Porting is not needed. And there is no :constant crashing"..lol You are just making shit up. These problems don't happen if you know how to use the OS, and its the same in windows. Also, MS Office works with Wine.
The only program that I can think of that people use mainstream that doesn't work in wine is Cubase. Give it a couple months and it will work.
You guys are thinking about Linux 10 years ago. Seriously..problems with Flash? I'm in the ubuntu tech support channel 24/7 ive not heard of problems with flash for atleast 6 years. And even then the problems were with the users computer, not the os or the flash libraries.
OR..you can use windows vista which crashes upon loading a .jpg file 90% of the time.
This discussion is fairly old. Anyone else want to bring it up again? The general idea is, I think most of you are full of shit and don't know/understand linux, or you DO but your just stubborn. And you all likely think i'm full of shit. So now that discussion has been concluded. Its the internet, you guys are wrong, get used to it  |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Storyteller : All that sounds like a problem with the user, not the OS. Its not supposed to cater to windows. That would defeat the purpose. But hey if people want to stay with borked windows, let them, that means less asinine question in Linux tech support.
echsystem with the way the economy is, your dad won't have to make any more documents :P
I have no need to "switch back to windows"...only reason I'm on it now was to try cubase. And cubase failed the test so it won't be used, I can switch back now and have no problems doing what I already do now. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Name one instance where I was proven wrong on something, And I will show you fallacy in action. Only time Ive been wrong is in the discussion about wav files. That is all, every other discussion was me posting an opinion, as an a opinion, and people flying off the wang. Like Subtle.
I'm posting like I always have, threads go offtopic when people want to try to debate me and prove to me why they think my opinion is wrong. And this is pretty recent. So don't try to play it off like i'm the one who is trouble. Don't call me out on some shit when its other arrogant mother ******s who think they can debate an opinion. Its not my fault this is the internet and people are too stupid to know when someone is arguing or talking normally. Like the cubase thread, i said it was my preference to use freezemode over bouncing wavs because its easier. Diginut wanted to argue against my preference, that alone is a fallacy.
Half of you people probably think this post is argumentative. Sucks to be you.
This is bollocks. I'm taking a break from this place, I'm not just gonna be fuel for folks who want to find someone to argue with and think I'm the easiest target. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
My posts are not confrontational. I simply don't care about spending time making them as neutral as I can. I expect people to be intelligent enough to see what I am saying and take it for what it is. Who cares how it sounds? And I don't act like I'm the only one right and everyone else is wrong. I simply say something when someone gets something wrong, instead of ignoring it or calling them a douche. When people say something correct why would they need any input from anyone else? Most of the people you have mentioned I agree with most of the time. Also most of the people you have mentioned Ive only ever had problems with when they say something stupid.
If you really deduce everything you mentioned from my posts, then I will say you shouldn't make assumptions and take the content for what it is. This isn't an ePenis contest and it isn't high school. There is no reason for me to make myself look like an oracle or what ever. Its the internet.
I think some people need to seriously consider taking etiquette classes or something. When you get to the point where a guy clearly says "I don't agree with you" and you interpret that as "yer a fvckin meron you peic of shit i am rite u r rong"... something is wrong.
And you know what the funny part is. Everyone here ive talked to in msn or PM, ive gotten along with. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Ive used FLStudio 7 in Ubuntu for a long while, I was able to use all my VSTi programs aswell. FLStudio 8 used to work, but to be honest, wine fucked up the registry system in a recent update. But it won't be long before its fixed. I was able to use firefox, to browse the web, 10 youtube vids opened with no issues. Amarok was pretty nice I think, and Photoshop and Paintshop both ran in wine just fine. The only troubles I had were when I myself did something wrong and broke something, which can happen because Linux is by no means idiot proof.
Just type "sudo rm -R /"[don't do this btw] into console and your pc will be pretty much fucked. Try to break windows and see how hard it is. Remember, sitting in a DAW with vsti and using mp3s and such is only a tiny method of making music, I know people who use only rosegarden to do the notation and the rest is done by their band. All that can be done on linux. Probably the hardest thing to do on linux is make EDM. But LMMS is a program that is getting somewhere relatively fast. And it aims to replace FLStudio Its completely linux based. Id use it myself but atm it doesn't have vsti FX support [lame] but does support vsti instruments. And all of this is done via apt-get, you hardly ever have to compile from source. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Lol those quotes of mine are jokes.
"The general idea is, I think most of you are full of shit and don't know/understand linux"
How do you not see that is a joke? Its leaning on this idea people have on the internet of right and wrong. Same with this one: "Its the internet, you guys are wrong, get used to it" I see that and I lol. Because it sounds like your typical eNerd who is in an argument he is not winning.
Though in retrospect, I could see how one would not see the humor in them. If a person thought everything else I said was wrong those statements could be seen as serious come backs from me.
Its like when I said trance died after 1999. Do you honestly think that I believe every single trance song made after December 21st 1999 sucks? No, trance went down hill a bit but there is still some spiffy stuff out there, the statement is only said to shed some light on a discussion that has gotten a bit serious, by saying a statement that is cliche.
Most of the time when people see these posts as confrontational, are times when i'm not serious. Take my recent posts to palm for example. those are serious posts, nothing in them speaks of confrontation.
As for windows being hard to break, compared to Linux it is hard. You can kill Linux in one command, a command you could easily mistake and type in. Windows requires at least a minuscule amount of effort.
I think Ive had enough attention, how about we talk about bit-rates again? Here is an easy question, What is bit-rate? |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Windows tech support consist of a guy from Pakistan or India on some hotline, with a guy who knows nothing about computers, but was given a sheet of paper with a list of arbitrary things to say to you regardless to what your problem is. At most the best support you will get is from a 3rd party source, such as ##windows on freenode.
Most Linux distros have a forum and 10 or so irc channels in different languages. On top of that most Linux applications have their own channel on freenode also. Freenode is like, the nexus of techsupport. You should visit us sometime.
The only time people act like an asshole is when you get Linux and complain to them that it doesn't act like windows. I won't say there aren't some xenophobes in the Linux world, because there are, some people will blacklist you simply for mentioning windows. But that certainly isn't the majority of users, and its no one in any channels ive frequented.
Even still, some programs actually do have shit support, but are still popular. FLStudio is one of them. The devs are complete assholes, they are like two dudes in their bedroom, and people give them advice on what to improve and the responses are less than quality. Yet its still one of the most used DAWs. So you can't say that the support for an application has much to say about it. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
FLStudio is coded by two guys in their spare time.
I never said Linux was a better choice for EDM than Windows, I simply said its a very valid choice. Id go so far as to say Mac and Linux are on the same level in terms of ability to make music on them.
Though for anyone who does actually care about their computer and uses it alot and likes to maintain everything, id say Linux is the best choice. Malware is little to none, support is generally high, and compatibility doubles every year. Looking at Windows history, its only gotten worse in the last 10 years. Vista is by most peoples account the worst operating system ever made, even good ole bill gates admitted that. As for Mac, Ive never heard a good thing about Mac. [no exaggeration] |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
So basically your saying Linux needs to be idiot friendly before it will be a real option? then Linux will probably never be an option, because most are opposed to the idea of making it idiot friendly. Ubuntu is looked down upon for this very reason. Making things easy.
Free software model works better than the proprietary model. Simply because the users have say and control in the direction of the software. Id rather change how I do things a little, then be bound and controlled by one single commercial entity, having to bow down to their will and wishes and direction. This is the inherent problem with all video game consoles, you have no control over what content and options you have. Besides all that, many major companies are starting to put their software into the open source market 3 to 5 years after they have released it because they see the benefit in it. Take iD software for example. And futher more, when one codes software because they want to and not because its their job, quality is ensured. The people who code Cubase for instance, could probably give to fucks about quality [Cubase 4] they just want their paycheck. And of course you have vendor lock in. Which causes all sorts of problems. You use a product that uses its own format, then later down the line that product is discontinued, so is all the work you did with that product. And with vendor lock in, you set yourself up to be ripped off my companies, because now they have control over your work flow, they will release updates and such all at major cost. And companies can and do change formats when ever they want which causes previous documents in the older format to become broken or obsolete.
You really prefer all that? |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Beatflux..so according to your post, you don't use any DAW. Nice. Atleast the advice you quoted from that guy removes every single available DAW from your options, if you were to follow it. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Wine can run Protools and Cubase. As for Mac, the guy in the other thread can't even find a decent mp3 player for Mac. Atleast with Linux + Wine you still have all your windows apps. When I ran Fortress Forever with steam on Linux using Wine it used less resources than if I had simply ran it on Windows.
Sorry, but I find this statement "Also, quality IS ensured when it's a paid for product, because sales rely on the quality of the product." to be complete utterly wrong. Windows is the worst OS in terms of quality, its also the highest used and sold. Cubase 4 sold well I hear, it was a piece of shit. You only hear bad things about Ableton, and its still doing alright. Quality has about as much to do with sales as the size of the devs penis. Why? Because quality doesn't sell software... ... ... Marketing does. The science of how to sell. You know those crappy infomercials that come on late at night that sell random garbage? They make millions on that random garbage, because they know how to market it. The Magic Jack is selling tons, its also one of the worst products ever marketed.
Ive worked with a few car salesmen, I know how to sell stuff :P You can sell someone a car with no wheels if you were good enough.
And another thing, people who actually code in a big ass company, are often paid long before the product goes to market, so whether it sells or not is not their concern. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
I live in America, because of marketing 90% of the country thinks fast food is good for you. And that drinking alcohol helps your calories. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Can you name an instance where market share directly correlates with quality? No. So Market share is irrelevant. Quality and Control are more important that user friendliness and idiot proofing, 100% of the time.
That is why you have this filthy virus infected scummy shit world known as windows where malware is prevalent and 90% of the user base computers are email spamming zombies.
Its looks like to me you are missing the point of Linux. And other FOSS projects. The primary directive if you will is to have a system people are in control of and not trapped it. Being in control is more important to the whole world of computing than whether something is user friendly. Because in the long run if FOSS stuff doesn't get big, the sum of all human computing will equal a lock-box controlled by a single corporate entity. Every single line of code will be subject to censorship at any given time for what ever reason. They already have a system in place for more than 5 years, where every single line of code is checked and every bit of data is controlled, its called XBOX Live, think of it as a Beta for the next generation of the internet. Where doing anything on the net requires that you have to verify yourself and every bit of data. And what ever this system deems harmful, you won't be allowed to access. And no one will do a fucking thing about it you know why? Because it will be an easy system to live with, despite that world productivity has plummeted.
Yet another outlet of information controlled by a single entity.
The proprietary model is obsolete. You can't allow one entity to control computing, and with Trusted Computing and other companies, that is the goal. Read up on net neutrality, why it was important and why its pretty much gone. It all boils down to world politics.
I think the rest of this should be moved to politics forum. Because that is what it is really about. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Except one thing, all of these qualities you mention that make one a market leader, do not apply to windows. They do not apply to McAffee antivirus. They do not apply to McDonalds, they do not apply to eMachine or Dell PCS....those 5 things alone represent the worst of quality in their fields. They are also the most popular and most used.
Windows, windows is a no fucking brainer. When windows Vista was release the piece of shit couldn't open a .jpg file without crashing, even moreso, bill gates himself has implied that vista is the worse thing his company has ever made. And when you look at what is in store with Windows 7, well, enough said. You know how they will sell windows 7? Marketing. That's not even mentioning that windowsland is a minefield of malware. [lol firefox keeps trying to change the word malware to "malarkey"]
McAfee anti virus..are you fucking serious? Norton for many years was held as number one, it was always, from day one, a piece of crap. How do you think malware spreads? How do you think Gator and Bonzai Buddy became so popular? Marketing
McDonalds? McDonalds food is horrible, you might as well put cardboard between two pieces of stale bread. And the funny part is everyone i know who eats fast food in general doesn't like it. So who knows [we know, really..marketing] why people like it, but it certainly isn't because its quality.
Lets not even start with eMachines, a very infamous computer company that struck it WAY big in the late 90's early 00's, and their computers were notorious for things like bad fans and power supplies, not to mention the loads of bloatware they came packaged with. Dell is pretty much the same shit, just a different company. Get a dell pc today running vista and you will be lucky if you can even watch youtube on it without it slowing down. Dell is probably the most used company when it comes to PCs...why? Marketing.
AOL, i'm sure everyone here remembers the horrors of AOL, not only in the software, but how they treat customers. Or what about comcast?? Comcast is the [iirc] only cable company in most of ameirca. It is absolutely number one. Comcast's customer support rates lower than the IRS! Internal Revenue Service. The most hated branch of government known to man. How does comcast get to where its at? Marketing [and some illegal actions, but lets not get into that]
Most of the number one products when it comes to software are shit. But are still number one. I can only name a few instances where a company truly is number one at what it is. But most of the time a company wins people's money through marketing. American cars are shit, American cars are still sold. Though Japanese cars are starting to be number one [w00t, Go Nissan!] But how long do you expect that to last?
I'm mean come on, people don't spend 20 years in constant study in marketing for no reason. People know marketing sells your product, not quality. Sure there are some cases where a product is one because its good [alot of German companies, esp in fields of electrical engineering] but moooost of the time its number one, its popular and used most of all...because that company did good with their marketing.
Look at nearly all food related products, its almost always marketing, most foods these days are horrible, they contain chemicals i wouldn't touch with a 5 mile pole. What about cigarettes? They are known to kill people, but people still buy them. Why? A combination of people not giving a shit [windows] and marketing. There is no such thing as a "quality cigarette"
To summarize, I agree quality can make a company number one, but quality is not how the majority of the world runs. Most people know and don't care,or they don't know because of clever marketing.
You do know marketing itself IS a science? |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Someone who is able to code a sophisticated virus or piece of malware, I think, is more than just a "pathetic loser" They attack windows because its easy to attack, and because most people who use it, are known among everyone, to not know shit about computers. Windows is "that OS normal unknowing people use" And so are easy targets. Even people who DO know alot about PCs get infected at some point. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Lol, Your talking to a guy who thinks it should be illegal to make money off software in the first place. You develop a project because you want to see good in it. The same way you write music because you want to hear good things.
Everyone, Attention, RichieV thinks only a pathetic looser would make music without getting any self benefit. That is his stance. His position. His belief system. Because software development is no less an art form for so many people, than making music is. Its nice to finally see your fucked up attitude towards artists who don't do it for the money. 
DJ RANN
I have the correct view on the world. You know I'm tired of trying to beat around the bush, how can you be this fucking naive? Linxu does everything windows does, and its free. "Third parties were incredibly slow to react to the changes meaning there were many compatibility issues and of course, MS got the blame." You just said it. You pointed out a core flaw with that model. So about things being "easy/intuitive/logical" By your definition, you HAVE to agree FLStudio is a better program than Cubase. Because its easier to use, its intuitive, and its logical. This is your own definition now. Apple is less than 2% of the computing world aswell. A million people may have iPods, but 10 times as many people have generic mp3 players. Everyone I know has an mp3 player, in the collage I have been to i didn't seen a single iPod, but I did see hundreds of different types of generic mp3 players. I didn't see an iPhones either. More people run a linux based system than Mac OS, simply because of Linux great server capabilities.
Lol, you want to reduce some of the most elegant coding [viruses] to simple "skriptkiddie" pandering? Really you jest. Windows is a playground for those coders who wish to show that coding is an artform. I don't know any branch of software development that shows such creativity. Much like a virus in the real world. It sounds to me like you have, too many times, been the victim of malware, all I can say is stop using windows and most of it just goes away. People don't write viruses for linux because they known they don't as the freedom that they have on windows. If a virus were to turn up on linux it wouldn't last long because most linux users know about this shit.
What does this have to do with music production? Coding software is an art for nearly every coder ive met. And that is alot. Its something they do because its fun. And when you have comments like RichieV basically saying there is no merit in coding without a self benefit. It makes me wonder why they are making music. And do they see music as just an avenue for revenue? |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Don't start with this Sigmund Freud crap. Because he and you is full of shit.
Windows users are often the target because intelligent people wish that people who use computers are intelligent themselves. They don't want to make it easy, and I don't blame them. Because when you pander to the masses, all you get is over simplistic menial software. The quality as a whole goes down in order to pander to the moronic of us who wish to use a computer.
Isn't this what we are talking about in the 1999 vs 2009 thread? How trance became easy to listen to and understandable to the masses of soccer moms? Isn't this the very thing alot of you complain about in modern trance? Its the same situation in software. People don't want the quality of software overall to go down because people feel they need to make things easy for the masses.
Why in music or software, would you want the total quality equal to the lowest common denominator among us? By you reasoning, Could I make a synth that has 3 buttons "House sound" "Trance Sound" "Psy Sound" and it magically produces your leads for you? It would be easy, intuitive and logical. You click a button and you have 'that' sound. And futher more, I would go and tell people using a Virus "with all those fnagled knobs and sliders" that the virus is too complicated for the average user and is thus bad hardware.
And following this path could someone later say that "3 buttons is too complicated"..and make a synth with one button?
They way I see it, you force people to elarn complicated things and eventually software gets more complicated and the over quality from that gets higher...or you make things simple and restricted, and eventually you have software with one button that does one thing. Where else can it go? |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
That's not what most people say however. FLStudio is likely the most used music software there is. Its also the most pirated [which probably has alot to do with it being used so much]
RichieV Where do you see a shit storm? No one is insulting anyone. No one is name calling or flaming. We are having a discussion. Albiet its off-topic, but i suggested earlier that we move this discussion elsewhere. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
But what I am saying is you can't afford to have a gap like that, esp now since "your average computer user" IS getting into production and other fields, and they are bringing the over quality down. Even if you don't want to talk about control over the industry or control over the internet. You have to still see that simplification and pandering to the LCD hurts everyone. On one end you have easy to use and very restrictive software. On the other end you have very complex software, but you have the most control and the best quality.
I would rather have your average level of computing on a complex level with less people using computers because of it. Than have the average level extremely simplified, but it becomes accessible to everyone. And THAT is because the simpler it gets, the less control WE [advanced users] have over the software available, and the people who know shit about computers become [already are] the majority influence on further projects down the line. What I mentioned about that 1 button synth. It can ONLY go this route. This line of reasoning could hypothetically see the end of music all together. Music could become too complicated to make or listen to for your average person. And then even music or art could become niche.
Humanity in general is devolving. Most peoples ability and understanding is only getting worse. And by making the majority of software simple and panderish to the LCD, you only help that devolution. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Lol, Tu Che! |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
You mention all these aspects in software when they are either taken care of just the same in an open environment, or they are not applicable. And further more the result is still..the same. We aren't talking about the process to make software, we are talking about the proprietary end product vs the open end product. We aren't talking about business. We are talking about which is better for the future of computing.
I'm an avid user of bittorent, whether software is free or not is not relevant to me. I can get what ever I want regardless to some price some guy put on it. And I'm betting that is the truth for most of us here. I'm not saying all this because i hate a company or i like free shit. I'm saying it because in the long run over simplification doesn't benefit anyone..catering to the masses doesn't help humanity because the masses are stupid.
You sound like a guy in the military who tries to explain what war is, when you have people who do guerrilla warfare which makes all known strategy obsolete. Case in point, no one has ever beaten guerrillas.
I get what your saying, but in the end all you have to show for it is a simple restricted product invented and catered to the lowest among its target. Many open projects cater to the most advanced of their targets. Software direction is I think very important for determining the future generations of users. Do you want the computer user in 2020 to be sole reliant on that invisible company who makes their software, and is completely and utterly dependent upon that company else they can't function. Or do you want people who all know what they are doing, are capable and do not need a dedicated company to give them the ability to work.
From what it sounds like to me, the open model and proprietary model both see the masses as simplistic, not intelligent and they need things made easy for them. Your model just wants to cater to them and that be that, the open model wants them to learn to do things themselves and contribute. And these ideas are apparent in the end product of both models.
Why do you think bitorrent exists? It requires people to contribute to receive. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
No one should be able to make money off of something they have an unlimited quantity of.
And also, you keep bringing up points that change nothing. Catering to the LCD doesn't help in any way. And you can't debate me on this, so you talk about the most insignificant parts of my posts, things that aren't even the point. Why bother?
Even if those points aren't part of open source..so? What is your point? Your model still hurts the development of human intelligence. Its only about getting the quick buck now and fuck all who it may harm now or in the future. Because you forget the very principle of your model. The proprietary model. And that is making money. They didn't sit around and decide "we want to make quality software and projects that help further the development of computing and those that use computers" Proprietary software is closed so that no one else can use that code to make money. Has nothing to do with usability, logic or intuitiveness, it doesn't make a project develop better [its been demonstrated to be the opposite] Its about the money.
Lets pretend its 10 years from now. And all these "issues" you have with Linux no longer exist, Linux is the new leader in desktop environments. Then what would you have to say? Because you may say Linux is clunky and hard to use, but you forget it DOES get more user friendly every year, by leaps and bounds. So what happens when it is as easy to use as windows? [its already as capable as windows] |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
No it isn't. Why should someone be allowed to make money of something they can simply copy and sell again? They didn't do any work for that copy. That not extra man hours. That's nothing, that's free money. And on the internet, its only one click. So it doesn't even cause physical strain to copy it.
And further more, why should they even be allowed to have the audacity to tell people they can't copy it? You can't tell people what they can or cannot do with the data they own. If its in their possession, they own it.
Proprietary laws are arbitrary rules someone just came up with one day on the fly. And trying to enforce them is next to impossible. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Or I can copy that license and give to everyone else, and what? You will do not a thing. And they will copy it and spread it. Some model you have their. And your only limiting yourself in the process. Uou put up "rules" and 'hope' others abide by them. Because there is not now, nor will their ever be, a way to enforce them. So why even try?
Diginut:
You can't debate it.
No one is talking about "Even a cursory investigation by a reasonable person would reveal that software - like every other product on this planet - is built for a specific target market and optimized to be usable and enjoyable by said market." We are talking about which model is better for human development. And you haven't even acknowledged that point. Despite it being THE point for the discussion.
I'm agreeing with you 100% But I'm saying its wrong and detrimental to the development of computing systems and humans ability to use them in the long run. And that is the point you keep skirting. Further more this simplicity in software being detrimental has ben demonstrated in EDM music. Many will not say trance blows now. But anyone from the late 80's to late 90's involved in trance WILL say that it went down hill a bit *because* it was so simple and easy to use and get FLStudio and Ableton [and other applications] to make new music.
This phenomena was also demonstrated on the Nintendo Entertainment System. That system has more than 5 times as many games as any other system around. Even today. And that is because it became easy to write games for it. And as a result there are a handful of good games, but most, most,most of them are not worth a first play through. While on more recent consoles there are less game but many more [relatively speaking] games that people enjoyed. Because its almost impossible to write bootleg games for modern consoles [cept the Dreamcast, that games console is the gateway to console modding and game modding ] |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
And you have not demonstrated why Linux doesn't compete with windows despite that it does everything windows does. And if not, a coder can make it so in a few days if they so wished.
Because usability is a matter of prospective. What is easy to use is a matter of prospective. What a thing can do vs what a thing can' do, is not a matter of prospective. And at the same time, anything you name that windows does that Linux can't, there are just as many things Linux does that windows can't. Something being easy to use is not something you can measure or quantify. And if you say that most people use windows [as if that's proof its easier to use] Then I say that is only because they haven't heard about linux. So there isn't even remotely an even amount of exposeure for the 3 major systems to judge that kind of thing.
So you see in essence discussion on this topic won't lead anywhere because in fact in terms of actual ability windows and Linux are for their own thing. They have their own purposes. In my opinion Linux is better for me, as an average user. Than windows. [which was my point in the very beginning, about my personal preference, and in the process of explaining why, we go into a debate about why my preference was supposedly wrong yatta yatta yatta...]
That being said, I moved the discussion on.
Do we still need to talk? I'm getting bored. |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Wow, Beatflux, I'm flattered you want to spread my word, my beacon of truth. Kudos to you :P
The funny thing is you think your the guy getting the last laugh.  |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
I should take a break from this forum for awhile..I start learning how ignorant people are and can do nothing but fight them. |
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| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
change your avatar for fucks sake. |
Last edited by Beatflux on Apr-16-2009 at 06:42
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