There is and has been some really great pop music made though.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

What more do you expect of those kids at the Guetta gig?

They're too busy with their damn Facebook, iPhones, TV shows, fashion trends (hipster, scene, hip-hop, etc.), video games, drugs, & sex to spend the time on an internet forum to share a specific passion. After a full day of work making money for a corporate suit to pay off bills/loans/debt, time with the significant other, & maybe some exercise, who can blame these people for just wanting to relax on the couch to watch some TV & get exposure to commercial music?

The rise of EDM in American pop culture shouldn't surprise anyone. Of course a lot of the names we used to love will sell out - musicians have been doing it for decades. You would pass up the life of a rockstar because remixing a song about taking shots is beneath you? There's an endless line of other DJs who would jump at that opportunity.

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When a wise man gives thee better counsel, give me mine again: I would have none but knaves follow it, since a fool gives it.

I officially have a mental crush on rich's psyche.

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Originally posted by couch-potato After a full day of work making money for a corporate suit to pay off bills/loans/debt, time with the significant other, & maybe some exercise, who can blame these people for just wanting to relax on the couch to watch some TV & get exposure to commercial music?

Lackluster excuse imo. I quit the hobby of djing/clubbing/having a raging weekend party life years ago when the ills of a consistant 80 hour work week really kicked in, I "sold out" and so began my addiction to the milk I suckle from the corporate teet. Yet I still have the time to make concious decisions about quality of music I listen to, music that has something to be expressed or said to me the listener other than "i have ableton and 20 minutes, lets make a hit!"

Last edited by jethro on Jan-12-2010 at 18:14

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Originally posted by couch-potato What more do you expect of those kids at the Guetta gig? They're too busy with their damn Facebook, iPhones, TV shows, fashion trends (hipster, scene, hip-hop, etc.), video games, drugs, & sex to spend the time on an internet forum to share a specific passion. After a full day of work making money for a corporate suit to pay off bills/loans/debt, time with the significant other, & maybe some exercise, who can blame these people for just wanting to relax on the couch to watch some TV & get exposure to commercial music? The rise of EDM in American pop culture shouldn't surprise anyone. Of course a lot of the names we used to love will sell out - musicians have been doing it for decades. You would pass up the life of a rockstar because remixing a song about taking shots is beneath you? There's an endless line of other DJs who would jump at that opportunity.

*thumbs up

Seems to me like a lot of people arguing the contrary would rather be sidekick Mo Williams than superstar Lebron James.

If you feel the adulation of a few that know about the industry is more satisfying than more money , more women, more fame , better technology , invites to the best celebrity parties then fair play to you because its obvious that stagnating in your career is more important than moving up the corporate ladder.

Personally , it sounds more to me like the minority Emo kids who go on about how messed up the world is because they dont agree with their point of view.

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Originally posted by Clovis There is and has been some really great pop music made though.

ya i'll stick to my commercial music criticisms, but i heard those lyrics just the other day and thought they were relevant to this thread. i'm sure there's still good pop music out there today, but it's marooned in such a vast sea of shit it's like finding a quarter in a septic tank... you begin to ask yourself if it's worth looking for.

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Originally posted by raveed rather be sidekick Mo Williams than superstar Lebron James

uhh...

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Originally posted by raveed If you feel the adulation of a few that know about the industry is more satisfying than more money , more women, more fame , better technology , invites to the best celebrity parties then fair play to you because its obvious that stagnating in your career is more important than moving up the corporate ladder.

if you feel the adulation of the masses substantiates your taste in music, then stick to that fallacious argument, because neither you or i are speaking from the point of view of our careers as artists. nor did i ever criticize the commercial producer's choice to sell disposable music for a living. as it has become customary for me to repeat myself in this thread, my criticism is against people like you who attach artistic merit to a commercial product based entirely on the argument of revenue generated. i said before money, fame and corporate ladders have no bearing on the enjoyment i derive from music. when i said that, what i really meant was it should have no bearing on you either.

you are clearly approaching music as a business venture before you are an art form, which i quite sad considering you aren't making a dime off any of it. the joke's on you really because having a taste in music so tightly attached to what's trendy and djmag popular means you're paying anywhere from 200-1000% of what i'm paying to go out and hear "good music". having been in your shoes for a time, i can be assured that i'm getting a lot more out of it than you. can you really say the same? you live in fremont so you party in sf... the extent of your knowledge on the sf scene probably ends at ruby skye, 1015 and bill graham. ask anyone else here if that even comes close to the whole picture. your problem is a lack of curiosity. maybe that's a not a problem for you, maybe you're only comfortable with the easy and familiar.

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Originally posted by raveed better technology

mo williams? better technology? where the hell are you getting this shit from?! lol

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Originally posted by raveed Personally , it sounds more to me like the minority Emo kids who go on about how messed up the world is because they dont agree with their point of view.

emo kids listen to armin van buuren and sing along to the emo lyrics of his emo music. hooooow did it end this wayyyy, doooon't leave meeee, love me, just a little bit longerrrr! what a lovely sight to see a bunch of grown men standing together singing these lyrics full bore while staring starry-eyed at armin. ugh...

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Originally posted by R!CH uhh... if you feel the adulation of the masses substantiates your taste in music, then stick to that fallacious argument, because neither you or i are speaking from the point of view of our careers as artists. nor did i ever criticize the commercial producer's choice to sell disposable music for a living. as it has become customary for me to repeat myself in this thread, my criticism is against people like you who attach artistic merit to a commercial product based entirely on the argument of revenue generated. i said before money, fame and corporate ladders have no bearing on the enjoyment i derive from music. when i said that, what i really meant was it should have no bearing on you either. you are clearly approaching music as a business venture before you are an art form, which i quite sad considering you aren't making a dime off any of it. the joke's on you really because having a taste in music so tightly attached to what's trendy and djmag popular means you're paying anywhere from 200-1000% of what i'm paying to go out and hear "good music". having been in your shoes for a time, i can be assured that i'm getting a lot more out of it than you. can you really say the same? you live in fremont so you party in sf... the extent of your knowledge on the sf scene probably ends at ruby skye, 1015 and bill graham. ask anyone else here if that even comes close to the whole picture. your problem is a lack of curiosity. maybe that's a not a problem for you, maybe you're only comfortable with the easy and familiar. mo williams? better technology? where the hell are you getting this shit from?! lol emo kids listen to armin van buuren and sing along to the emo lyrics of his emo music. hooooow did it end this wayyyy, doooon't leave meeee, love me, just a little bit longerrrr! what a lovely sight to see a bunch of grown men standing together singing these lyrics full bore while staring starry-eyed at armin. ugh...

If you read my previous posts, im not stating that im a fanboy of the commercial scene rather my point is that you need to pay attention to the direction in which the industry is heading and embrace the changes. Although im neither a DJ or a producer , i know about the music enough to realize tracks like Roadkill or Suburban train have a lot more technical elements to it than say any Guetta track.

The fact is that people are being rather one dimensional when looking at the Tiestos and Armins and proclaiming that their music lacks passion. Fact is , they are doing this as a career and eventually everyone needs to pay their bills. Heck Armin even has a Law degree meaning that he has an educational backup incase his music career were to derail - how many artists can claim to have that kind of a resume?

Maybe i have not seen the EDM scene outside 1015 and Ruby Skye but if im not profiting or making any personal growth by going deeper into the scene and am thoroughly entertained by going to the Skye and the massives, what is wrong with that?

People who follow the mainstream aspect of dance music never claim to be experts on the art of making music. They just want to go to a club and have a good time.

Honestly, the dance music industry needs the armins and tiesto's in order to keep flourishing because its these names that also promote and nurture new talent. By playing tracks of unknowns on their radio shows and gigs, thats the way the public gets to know of the budding artists else they would not stand to gain recognition given that they hardly make money from digital download royalties and the whole piracy thing.

The Mo Williams thing was just an analogy and was not meant to be taken literally to digest the previous point that i made. I was emphasizing that would you be just another ho hum - hes decent player/ artist or be the star of the show?

at least their music is not as bad as this http://www.myspace.com/djluxor

/obligatory

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Originally posted by bas we're just rolling in that sweet sweet Beatport chedda SON. I PUT DIAMONDS IN MY SALT SHAKER SO I CAN HAVE CRUSHED DIAMONDS ON MY FOOD...it makes my dookie twinkle!!!

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Originally posted by raveed If you read my previous posts, im not stating that im a fanboy of the commercial scene rather my point is that you need to pay attention to the direction in which the industry is heading and embrace the changes. Although im neither a DJ or a producer , i know about the music enough to realize tracks like Roadkill or Suburban train have a lot more technical elements to it than say any Guetta track.

why do i need to pay attention to the direction in which the industry is heading and embrace the changes? you made the point, now give me one good reason why.

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Originally posted by raveed The fact is that people are being rather one dimensional when looking at the Tiestos and Armins and proclaiming that their music lacks passion. Fact is , they are doing this as a career and eventually everyone needs to pay their bills. Heck Armin even has a Law degree meaning that he has an educational backup incase his music career were to derail - how many artists can claim to have that kind of a resume?

one dimensional to me is looking at the tiestos and armins of today (the chart toppers) for musical guidance. sure their music has tons of passion, for money. that's pretty obvious. i don't even know why you are trying to explain to me why they chose to commercialize for the millions, i've never even called that into question. also armin didn't get a law degree as a backup to his music career, he got it before he became an artist.

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Originally posted by raveed Maybe i have not seen the EDM scene outside 1015 and Ruby Skye but if im not profiting or making any personal growth by going deeper into the scene and am thoroughly entertained by going to the Skye and the massives, what is wrong with that?

nothing.

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Originally posted by raveed People who follow the mainstream aspect of dance music never claim to be experts on the art of making music. They just want to go to a club and have a good time.

seriously, these straw man arguments are getting old. i never said people who like mainstream music claim to be experts on the art of making music. i'm talking about a very specific group of people who use money/fame/charts to valuate musical quality. the moment you make that argument, you've tossed your hat in the ring of people alleging to know what they are talking about.

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Originally posted by raveed Honestly, the dance music industry needs the armins and tiesto's in order to keep flourishing because its these names that also promote and nurture new talent. By playing tracks of unknowns on their radio shows and gigs, thats the way the public gets to know of the budding artists else they would not stand to gain recognition given that they hardly make money from digital download royalties and the whole piracy thing.

no it doesn't. armin and tiesto promote their labels and their friends labels, it's very much a tit for tat relationship. it's been several years since they've brought underground music to light. dance music will always flourish in one form or another. the commercial garbage will always be there because it will always make millions off catchy hooks and emo lyrics. there's no need for you to support and protect it like an endangered species. find a better reason to support it.

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Originally posted by raveed The Mo Williams thing was just an analogy and was not meant to be taken literally to digest the previous point that i made. I was emphasizing that would you be just another ho hum - hes decent player/ artist or be the star of the show?

it's was a terrible analogy, trying to compare art to sport. in sport there are means of quantifying a player's performance and value. in art there is none. the music industry uses metrics to determine the commercial value of an artist, but when trying to apply that to artistic value, it's like trying to measure weight with a ruler.

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Originally posted by leph555 at least their music is not as bad as this http://www.myspace.com/djluxor /obligatory

i see your luxor and raise you a juanster

http://www.myspace.com/juanster180

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Originally posted by R!CH i see your luxor and raise you a juanster http://www.myspace.com/juanster180

he makes $250,000, he probably gets mucho yssup.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.