quote:

Originally posted by -g- many consumables can incite a positive result, even when not wholly consumed.

not only that but there are certain diseases that may cause a build up of ethanol in your blood to bring it over the limit of 0%.

The real issue here is that it should have nothing to do with age but with driving experience. If a 50 year old lady gets her license at 50 she is still just as new to the road as an 18 year old. this is a clear case of age discrimination.

The government is getting sued for this too.

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Young driver challenges Ontario alcohol ban Last Updated: Wednesday, August 4, 2010 | 6:21 PM ET Comments75Recommend36.The Canadian Press A young Toronto man went to court Wednesday to challenge Ontario's new law prohibiting drivers 21 and under from having any alcohol whatsoever in their systems. Kevin Wiener, 20, filed his application in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, alleging the law that took effect Sunday violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms because it is based on age. "I want to make it very clear that, like all Ontarians, I am absolutely against drunk driving and I'm for safer streets," Wiener said after filing his application with the court. "That does not mean that we should have laws that discriminate on the basis of age." The government counters that its law requiring all drivers 21 and under to have a zero blood-alcohol content, regardless of their class of licence, is based on scientific evidence showing accidents involving drinking drivers fall off dramatically after age 22. Wiener dismissed the statistical argument, and said people who are old enough to serve in the military, perform jury duty, and elect governments are mature enough to decide if they want a drink with dinner. "Statistics show that male drivers, for example, are more likely to get into certain kinds of accidents, but I think we can all agree that we would never see the government apply legislation selectively to one gender or race or national origin because of statistics," he said. "They seem to think it's OK to do so for age. Maybe that's because young people aren't as likely to vote." The law needs to be changed to ban all inexperienced drivers from having any alcohol in their systems, but also to remove the alcohol ban on young drivers 21 and under, said Wiener. "If this is a matter of experience then let's change the legislation and have it apply to any driver regardless of age," he said. "It's not right for the government to try to treat adults like they're children." Wiener's application will get a hearing in court Nov. 1. He doesn't have a lawyer yet, but Wiener was hoping all the media attention he's generated by challenging the drinking ban will prompt someone to step forward and offer him legal representation. Wiener admitted he's a member of the provincial Progressive Conservatives and federal Conservatives, but said he was acting alone in his challenge of the drinking and driving law. "I am not co-ordinating this with any other groups or individuals," he said. "This is something I'm doing myself." Five young drivers have been issued 24-hour driving suspensions by the Ontario Provincial Police since the rule came into effect. Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/st...l#ixzz0vpWXnYFS

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess The real issue here is that it should have nothing to do with age but with driving experience. If a 50 year old lady gets her license at 50 she is still just as new to the road as an 18 year old. this is a clear case of age discrimination. The government is getting sued for this too.

As I said before on this thread (story posted twice already ), I am hoping that this guy wins. And then the government comes up with a better law that covers all adults. First, I hope this guy hopefully will find a lawyer willing to represent himself.

But I think it will be hard to find a lawyer for him ... What lawyer would represent someone for FREE, client with last name Wiener?

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

MADD was a good idea until they became MAD (mothers against drinking)

Attention MADD: Prohibition didnt work the first time around

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

any stats I find on the gov canada site shows that that age group is NOT the most likely to drink and drive. Its the 30-40 range and the avg age is 34.x.
Smoke and mirrors bs imho. I dont think itll do a dang thing to make anything safer.
ride isnt on every corner. Its a gamble and people will continue to push the limits regardless of what age group...

and no I dont condone drinking and driving.

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Trance in my pants

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Come on, erratic driving that caused the driver to weave in and out of 4 lanes of traffic, with many 911 calls from concerned drivers that had to get out of the way? You cant see the obvious signs of drunk driving? Even on the 11 o'clock news they said that alcohol was a factor. Confirmed! LOL, Jay! You gotta be shitting me - you wanna raise the speed limit to 120?! People are ALREADY going 120 on the highway, if you set the speed limit to 120 then they will go at 140. You dont understand human nature. Do you drive on a highway, ever? No offense, but you havent seen what I've seen. A lot of aggressive drivers. I've been in accidents three times in the last 2 years, and not ONE in years before - none of those was my fault either, but each time it was a dumb-fuck driver (rear-ended full-speed at a stop sign, rear-ended while I was turning right, sideswiped as a result of road rage). It has affected my insurance, even though none of them was my fault. Next time you're driving, instead of just staring ahead, look around and see how bad people are driving. And I am not talking about just the speeders, but the idiots who go 60 km/h on QEW, and those who abruptly change 4 lanes at once just to get to their exit at the last second. Those who blow through red lights and stop signs like there is no tomorrow. And get this - ALL OF THOSE ARE SOBER PEOPLE. Imagine them with just a slight amount of alcohol in the blood? Holly hell, I can see why that dude got ripped in several pieces yesterday, it all makes sense! Regulation is the way. Here's another random example - look at the Canadian banking industry for example - we had it regulated and Americand didnt - and you saw what happened in the unregulated American banking industry. Jay Jay ...

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Trance in my pants

that "drunk driver" you were talking about who died in a car crash on QEW in hamilton is my dad.

for everybody's information.. autopsy results showed there was no alcohol in his blood. my dad fell asleep because of exhaustion. he worked the morning before he drove up to where his brothers were camping, an area close to niagara. he would've stayed overnight at the campsite but he didn't because he was supposed to work in the morning. everybody knew he was not going to stay over so they didn't give him any alcohol. his brothers and sister-in-law said he wanted to be home by 3am so he could still get atleast 3hrs sleep before he goes to work in the morning.

anyways, to make a long story short, he didn't have any alcohol in his blood, and was definitely not drunk when he crashed. so please don't be quick to judge. car accidents don't always root from drunk driving.

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Originally posted by alexismiri that "drunk driver" you were talking about who died in a car crash on QEW in hamilton is my dad. for everybody's information.. autopsy results showed there was no alcohol in his blood. my dad fell asleep because of exhaustion. he worked the morning before he drove up to where his brothers were camping, an area close to niagara. he would've stayed overnight at the campsite but he didn't because he was supposed to work in the morning. everybody knew he was not going to stay over so they didn't give him any alcohol. his brothers and sister-in-law said he wanted to be home by 3am so he could still get atleast 3hrs sleep before he goes to work in the morning. anyways, to make a long story short, he didn't have any alcohol in his blood, and was definitely not drunk when he crashed. so please don't be quick to judge. car accidents don't always root from drunk driving.

i am very sorry for your loss.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by alexismiri that "drunk driver" you were talking about who died in a car crash on QEW in hamilton is my dad. for everybody's information.. autopsy results showed there was no alcohol in his blood. my dad fell asleep because of exhaustion. he worked the morning before he drove up to where his brothers were camping, an area close to niagara. he would've stayed overnight at the campsite but he didn't because he was supposed to work in the morning. everybody knew he was not going to stay over so they didn't give him any alcohol. his brothers and sister-in-law said he wanted to be home by 3am so he could still get atleast 3hrs sleep before he goes to work in the morning. anyways, to make a long story short, he didn't have any alcohol in his blood, and was definitely not drunk when he crashed. so please don't be quick to judge. car accidents don't always root from drunk driving.

First of all, R.I.P. to the 54-year-old man who died under horrific circumstances in that August crash. It didn't have to happen.

Now, I am sorry if I sound cruel, but I am highly sceptical that you are the person you claim to be. You signed up under umbigious reasons to refute a strong point against drunk driving. This is your only post on the forum, and this trick has been done many times on the internet. As a member of several forums, I have seen this hoax before, new user registered to make one or a few posts and then disappears, on behalf of some other user for an argument. You fail to provide evidence for your comment apart from your commentary. I find it hard to believe you would be searching for forums related to this discussion for your painstaking efforts to clear the person's name. Please provide evidence. Otherwise I cannot take your post seriously and will stick to the initial police report. Anybody can quickly sign up for an account (on behalf of a diffent user in a discussion) and post something. For example, as evidence, please post something that says that in fact the driver was not drunk, as I have not seen otherwise in this accident.

Sorry if I sound cruel, but thats the reality of the internet forums.

This accident, this was not just a case of exhaustion ... the driver was going all over the highway, with MANY 911 calls from concerned drivers (read the articles). See the tell-tale signs. Typically, if the driver is exhausted, he would fall asleep, veer off the road and crash. This driver was not slowing down when OPP officers were on his tail. The article does say that police officers were behind him and he was not pulling over. Read the articles. See the signs.

In any case, you seem to fail to notice the basic point of that story ... drunk driving can have dangerous consequences. You are basically refuting the issue of alcohol behind the wheel.

Just the other day, some drunk douche was going the wrong way on the highway, but he was a 39-year-old man, not a teenager. Luckily, through painstaking police efforts they managed to stop him before he killed anyone. Almost EVERY DAY I read such articles!

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toro...f-15012291.html

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August 13, 2010 An Aurora man has been charged after a car drove several kilometres in the wrong direction on Hwy. 401 early Friday morning. Police received calls about a car headed east on the westbound 401 near Trafalgar Rd. around 3:10 a.m., Port Credit OPP Const. Graham Williamson said. Officers caught up with the car near Dixie Rd., but couldn’t pull it over. “We had a very close call with one officer who attempted to stop the suspect vehicle,” Williamson said. “The officer’s cruiser was traveling west, the correct direction, in the westbound lanes and tried to intercept the vehicle traveling in the opposite direction,” he said. “The attempt was unsuccessful and the officer used evasive action to avoid a collision.” Police managed to pull over the car near the Hwy. 427 exit, about 15 km from Trafalgar Rd.. “The potential for disaster was huge,” Williamson said. “It is a very fortunate turn of events that nothing untoward happened. There were no injuries and no collisions.” At no point did a police cruiser drive in the wrong direction on the highway during the roughly seven-minute chase. The car pulled over after a cruiser pulled up in the eastbound lanes, with its sirens blaring, Williamson said. Il Kyoung Kim, 39, has been charged with dangerous driving, refusing to supply a breath sample and impaired driving. He was released on a promise to appear in Brampton court on Sept. 27.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

In reference to the aurora guy on the highway. Im assuming mcguinty will be bringing in legislation to deal with 39 year olds? Just wondering

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium According to MADD Canada, while drivers aged 16 to 24 make up just 13 per cent of the population, they represent 33 per cent of deaths caused by drunk driving. Those are quite sobering statistics, dont you think? That will be hard to fight in court, but the challenge to the law by that young man is a reasonable one. Maybe upon appeal, they will ban drinking and driving completely. But then many people like Jay will come out and protest it and it will be dropped. Faster than the eco tax. And number of fatalities as a result alcohol behind the wheel will not see any further reductions - and Canada will continue to drop behind the rest of the developed world in that area.

really, that statistic is biased.
It should be "while drivers aged 16 to 24 make up just XX per cent of the driving population, they represent 33 per cent of deaths caused by drunk driving."
You can't loop in people who are not allowed to drive. More so, the statistic should only include people w/ a driving license as they are many people above age 16 who do not drive (think of many torontonians using public transit).

After revising the statistic, it will probably be in line w/ other age brackets. Of course, they will never do that as it will not support their self-serving objectives.

Furthermore, i take stats from MADD with a grain of salt since they seem to be willing to do anything to support their objectives. You need stats from a party w/o bias.

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Do I exist?

^ To add to the above, note that it also says "deaths caused by drunk driving", not necessarily responsible for them (though I doubt the numbers would be terribly different either way, but still, not necessarily the most honest data).