quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Oh no! Is it too late to take back what I said?

Haha, it's all right, I'll spare your soul then

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Haha, it's all right, I'll spare your soul then

I was j/k. I'm not interested in getting into a deep debate right now but it would make an interesting topic.

In a related side note a friend of mine who had moved to America said it wasn't that friendly. Of course I wanted to defend the US and asked her to clarify. She said everyone rushes back and forth from their jobs in their cars to their compartmentalized suburb housing. It's not uncommon to drive through a neighborhood and not see anyone outside (even in the summer). After which the same place now looked a little different to me.

It probably doesn't directly compare to what you are saying and maybe its more a reflection of modern society. I guess my point is society can look very different depending on where you are standing especially to foreigners.

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Originally posted by WittyHandle It's funny how people bash America for being xenophobic and racist, when Japan openly embraces these traits. For some reason it's acceptable for them though. Why?

Well, the US was founded by a bunch of migrants. and its been populated by migrants since. Its fairly silly comparing a nation whose existed for thousands of years, and has a huge history and pride about their long existence to one whose been around 300 years (their areas of ideological pride also come directly from the works of french and english politicians and philosophers too, so its not particularly special either), and has no specific long-reaching cultural or historic background...

the fact that Japan is blatantly xenophobic is also very different to the US because Japan is (at least) honest!

The US claims complete openness, and other PLUR things (constitution), but entirely fails to live up to them. Japan doesn't promise any such nonsense.

Outcomes are therefore similar, BUT one is honest, one is a complete hypocrisy

honesty is a starting point for change: Hypocrisy creates bitterness, hatred and is impossible to get out of.

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Originally posted by Lira Because the lack of foreigners in Japan is appalling. It's well bizarre:

haha its awesome: I was there 5 weeks, and went to lots of touristy places and saw a whitey a week... I was there in winter though, so missed the super-tourist times... I also didn't really go out to bars and crap, so surely would have seen more...

anyway, the japanese are EXTREMELY nice to tourists, especially if you make any effort in speaking their language etc, which is fairly at odds with a lot of other xenophobic places who treat tourists like shit.

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Originally posted by EgosXII The US claims complete openness, and other PLUR things (constitution), but entirely fails to live up to them. Japan doesn't promise any such nonsense.

Care to highlight the "complete openness" amendment? I must have missed that one all along.

If you're thinking of that etching on the base of the statue of liberty... I'll remind you it was a goddamned gift. It's like when Grandma gets you a sweater with a duck on it, and you hate ducks.

//ESPECIALLY Mexican ducks!

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Last edited by Halcyon+On+On on Dec-17-2010 at 02:29

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Care to highlight the "complete openness" amendment? I must have missed that one all along. If you're thinking of that etching on the base of the statue of liberty... I'll remind you it was a goddamned gift. It's like when Grandma gets you a sweater with a duck on it, and you hate ducks. //ESPECIALLY Mexican ducks!

unalienable rights of man: All peoples are equal and have rights to live how they want etc

liberal shit like that can never be solely nationalistic (rights only for citizens, or people born in the US), its a declaration saying that human beings are fundamentally the same, and have the same rights while alive--

xenophobia is in contrast to the very foundations of American society, historically and ideologically at least

of course, mexican ducks do override that to an extent... they're just so fluffy and make you look ridiculous, cute and altogether uncool

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Originally posted by Kenny Rogers you are assholes, people dont like you. get over it or do something about it. do u think the flag burning happens because "things are getting peachy?". no its because they dont have a nuke to show what they really mean.

well until they get it, these 2 guys below, they got 2 words for you.







p.s. suck it

The smartest American has down syndrome

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII the fact that Japan is blatantly xenophobic is also very different to the US because Japan is (at least) honest! The US claims complete openness, and other PLUR things (constitution), but entirely fails to live up to them. Japan doesn't promise any such nonsense. Outcomes are therefore similar, BUT one is honest, one is a complete hypocrisy honesty is a starting point for change: Hypocrisy creates bitterness, hatred and is impossible to get out of.

Damn, your logic is fucked. So because Japan is openly racist they are better than a country that attempts (and largely succeeds at) racial integration and acceptance? So if America went back to slavery we would be better off because at least the slaves knew where they stood? Yeah, I'm sure the Koreans that bear the brunt of the hatred of the Japanese really appreciate the honesty with which they are discriminated against.

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Originally posted by EgosXII The US claims complete openness, and other PLUR things (constitution), but entirely fails to live up to them. Japan doesn't promise any such nonsense.

Wow, you're on a roll. Where does the constitution guarantee complete openness again? And where is that PLUR amendment? The Declaration of Independance states "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". The ability to pursue something is very different than a guarantee of it being realized. And we have completely failed to live up to it? I'd like you to tell that to the countless people of many different races who are living successful, happy lives in this country. It is far from perfect, and we need to do much more, but it is a much further cry from failure.

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Originally posted by EgosXII haha its awesome: I was there 5 weeks, and went to lots of touristy places and saw a whitey a week... I was there in winter though, so missed the super-tourist times... I also didn't really go out to bars and crap, so surely would have seen more... anyway, the japanese are EXTREMELY nice to tourists, especially if you make any effort in speaking their language etc, which is fairly at odds with a lot of other xenophobic places who treat tourists like shit.

I went for a month to visit my girlfriend at the time. We spent the first two weeks in Tokyo, one of the largest cities on the planet. I did not see a single non-asian face for the first week and a half. Not one. The time I saw a white person, we walked right up to each other as soon as we made eye contact, each crossing two lanes of traffic to do so. The only thing we had in common was our skin color, but that was enough to spark a conversation. It was certainly a learning experience for me in what it feels like to be a minority.

Yes, the Japanese are extremely nice to tourists. But see how quickly that kindness vanishes when you tell them you live there. They like you as long as they know you're going to leave.

You are a very naive person if you really believe any of what you wrote here.

Last edited by WittyHandle on Dec-17-2010 at 06:16

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Originally posted by EgosXII anyway, the japanese are EXTREMELY nice to tourists, especially if you make any effort in speaking their language etc

It's cute when you say something in Japanese and they reply in English because they know your language even when don't know your actual language

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quote:

Originally posted by WittyHandle Damn, your logic is fucked. So because Japan is openly racist they are better than a country that attempts (and largely succeeds at) racial integration and acceptance? So if America went back to slavery we would be better off because at least the slaves knew where they stood? Yeah, I'm sure the Koreans that bear the brunt of the hatred of the Japanese really appreciate the honesty with which they are discriminated against. Wow, you're on a roll. Where does the constitution guarantee complete openness again? And where is that PLUR amendment? The Declaration of Independance states "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". The ability to pursue something is very different than a guarantee of it being realized. And we have completely failed to live up to it? I'd like you to tell that to the countless people of many different races who are living successful, happy lives in this country. It is far from perfect, and we need to do much more, but it is a much further cry from failure. I went for a month to visit my girlfriend at the time. We spent the first two weeks in Tokyo, one of the largest cities on the planet. I did not see a single white face for the first week and a half. Not one. The first time I did see one, we walked right up to each other as soon as we made eye contact, each crossing two lanes of traffic to do so. The only thing we had in common was our skin color, but that was enough to spark a conversation. Yes, the Japanese are extremely nice to tourists. But see how quickly that kindness vanishes when you tell them you live there. They like you as long as they know you're going to leave. You are a very naive person if you really believe any of what you wrote here.

not sure if you took time to consider what i wrote, didn't understand it, or i wrote it wrong, but you have misinterpreted what i wrote in an impressive manner!

1: I said honesty is a stepping stone to progress, while hypocrisy leads to failure, using japan/US ideals as an example. Japan comes from a history of extreme xenophobia and admit that: Their country is going to be, and i believe is starting to, alter their attitudes-- the US never stops claiming there is no problem, when anyone can see there is.

I never justified discrimination. Of ANY kind. I never casualised marginilisation (like you saying its not THAT bad in the US)- I said its harder to get over when you can't admit there's a problem.

i also never said japan is better, i said it was DIFFERENT, and so, the comparison is always going to be shakey. Mostly, as you ignored in my post, because japan has a long history of racism, and the US does, and should not.

2: i outlined what i meant in response to Hal. American (western european/idealist/liberalist) ideals have to be universally applicable, or they cannot work. you can say its not true, and its not in the constitution but its fundamental to these ideals: that was the whole point of the document, and its predecessors; making human beings have the same rights, despite religious beliefs, origin and ethnicity. It applies to all or none. This is why the US is such an expansionist, and arguably imperialist regime: They believe all people are the same (fundamentally).

3: lol, i simply disagree. nice example about missing white people so much that as soon as you see one, no matter who he is, you run to embrace him... Those racist Japanese people! how incredibly racist of you yourself to just Connect with some random (who could have been a psychotic killer) just because he has the same skin tone as you...

I wouldn't know if the niceness somehow vanishes if you stay for a while. I met a lot of people when i was over there, and despite my limited ability to communicate never came against any negativity. I was there for 5 weeks and was roaming around by myself the entire time. I don't know how any of the people i met could have assumed i was going to leave...

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira It's cute when you say something in Japanese and they reply in English because they know your language even when don't know your actual language

haha so true: I also had it a couple of times that i couldn't understand their english... Of course since my japanese was no doubt as terrible i couldn't really complain...


Keep calm and carry on eh

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