Jan was right in his first post. That sound was better known as "tribal house" in its day. I've heard the "hard house" label bandied about occasionally but that has been retrospectively eclipsed by the two more famous breeds of hard house Jan gave. Consequently, there's nothing much about "NYC hard house" on Google, but you only have to go to Wikipedia to find this:

quote:

Tribal house rose to prominence off the releases of New York labels Tribal America Records and, to a lesser extent, Strictly Rhythm Records. The music was a staple in New York's most prominent clubs such as the Sound Factory and Roxy NYC. Tribal America Records' infamy within this sub-genre stemmed from their globally popular releases by Danny Tenaglia, Junior Vasquez, Deep Dish, Eric Kupper (aka K-Scope) and Murk amongst others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_house

The thing is, the music we're talking about more-or-less originated from the NYC garage sound, when producers like Todd Terry began emphasising the bassy, rhythmic side of garage at the end of the '80s instead of the soulful song-ful aspects. Garage rhythms are what separate the New York tribal/hard house sound from what tribal more notoriously became in the early '00s, when it was verging on sterile tech/progressive house filled with conga loops and pitched down voices talking about "The drums, drums, drums..." ad nauseum. Inevitably, you can thank Sasha and Digweed and their Twilo residency for convincing a lot of NYC producers to ditch the garage origins of the music and retain the booming rhythms to better match with the all-conquering sounds of progressive house.

(Needless to say, this use of "tribal" has nothing to do with what jonmitz meant earlier in the thread, hence the mass confusion.)

Personally I think the easiest solution for you guys is to change it to NYC hard and tribal house.

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> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

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quote:

Originally posted by Lews Really? Spend fifteen seconds here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ic_music_genres

Yeah, and isn't it telling that it isn't mentioned even on an extensive list such as this?

quote:

If you're really this confused about NY Hard House, start with Junior Vasquez and move outward from there.

I've already accepted that this is apparently going to be a Vasquez tribute-mix. that's fine.
I'm just trying to put things in perspective here. I don't buy 2techs wild proclamations about this really being a genre. It's a specific house flavour from a few artists in one city that momentarily existed 30+ years ago, and were talking about it as if it's the most obvious thing in the world.

-edit- Never mind. We got some more clarification up above here.

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Last edited by Bierheld on Aug-29-2014 at 00:34

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Jan was right in his first post. That sound was better known as "tribal house" in its day. I've heard the "hard house" label bandied about occasionally but that has been retrospectively eclipsed by the two more famous breeds of hard house Jan gave. Consequently, there's nothing much about "NYC hard house" on Google, but you only have to go to Wikipedia to find this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_house The thing is, the music we're talking about more-or-less originated from the NYC garage sound, when producers like Todd Terry began emphasising the bassy, rhythmic side of garage at the end of the '80s instead of the soulful song-ful aspects. Garage rhythms are what separate the New York tribal/hard house sound from what tribal more notoriously became in the early '00s, when it was verging on sterile tech/progressive house filled with conga loops and pitched down voices talking about "The drums, drums, drums..." ad nauseum. Inevitably, you can thank Sasha and Digweed and their Twilo residency for convincing a lot of NYC producers to ditch the garage origins of the music and retain the booming rhythms to better match with the all-conquering sounds of progressive house. (Needless to say, this use of "tribal" has nothing to do with what jonmitz meant earlier in the thread, hence the mass confusion.) Personally I think the easiest solution for you guys is to change it to NYC hard and tribal house.

the thing is, NY Hard House already encapsulates the tribal house sound. it also encapsulates diva house, and it was all rolled into one. Sure I obviously wasn't "there" back in the 90's, but the notion that the term Hard House didn't exist in the new york club scene back then is just revisionist history.

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld I'm just trying to put things in perspective here. I don't buy 2techs wild proclamations about this really being a genre. It's a specific house flavour from a few artists in one city that momentarily existed 30+ years ago, and were talking about it as if it's the most obvious thing in the world.

I give up.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Garage rhythms are what separate the New York tribal/hard house sound from what tribal more notoriously became in the early '00s, when it was verging on sterile tech/progressive house filled with conga loops and pitched down voices talking about "The drums, drums, drums..." ad nauseum.

You couldn't be talking about this, could you?

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Quarantine Classics Brunello di Montalcino (In Transit) Edition [Progressive Classics] (August 2020)
Quarantine Classics - Puligny-Montrachet Edition [Progressive Classics] (April 2020)
What Is Progressive Anyways? [Progressive House Classics] (November 2019)

quote:

Originally posted by 2techs the thing is, NY Hard House already encapsulates the tribal house sound.

I'd say it's the other way around - tribal house has ended up being the more famous, longer-running and more recognisable strain of house music, and so "NYC hard house" can be viewed as a stage in the development of tribal. But really, I don't give a shit either way. I'm just pointing out some facts and history that will help Bierheld and anyone else get a handle on what defines this music, and also suggesting that broadening the definition slightly will be much more painless.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews You couldn't be talking about this, could you?

That and about a thousand other tracks from the same era.

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Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Yup, there was tons of crossover with tribal house (John Creamer and Stephane K, early Steve Lawler, et al), Jack did a great synopsis up above...

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So then it's obvious that the most logical solution would be to replace the lesser known genre with its more recognized counterpart: "tribal house". Right?

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No, because now it's become a bland genre that has lost its microcosm of a specific sound. Hard House and Tribal House for a stretch, were intertwined in many NY tracks. The reason why NYC Hard House is a legitimate tag is because it automatically sums up the sound, the years, and the culture.

quote:

Originally posted by 2techs I give up.

Please do, seeing you're not even participating.

Why not just take my advice and go with hard and tribal house, which gives you a bigger pool of tracks to play with but doesn't place the emphasis away from the garage-y elements?

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Because more sand will get in Mattsanity's vagina

Seriously though, I updated the original post. "NY Hard/Tribal House"

Can we fucking leave it now and focus on the veto? Or should we just skip the veto and leave all genres as is? I'll keep in mind your personal vetos.

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lol genres