quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle By removing Saddam, it will make that region more stable than it is right now.

I disagree.

it is possible to have a bad regime and a stable region and no government / puppet government with an unstable region.

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quote:

Originally posted by USMC_Greg The war is legal, and I'm happy it started

I think so too, after 15 years of saying yes to the inspectors , Iraq
wouldnt just desarm in one year. I dont think this is the war against
the iraqi peopleor muslims(just listen to them, i have some friends-iraqis),this is the war against Saddam and his Regime. In this war i am totally behind USA.

quote:

...I'm just going to flat out ask all the people out there who oppose getting rid of Saddam especially the people who have lived in or grown up in or have excellent knowlege of the region: Are you saying that you would rather have Iraqis - Innocent and maybe even in some cases, relatives of yours - KILLED by a unstable, lunatic than for the US and co. to come in and get rid of the man holding everyone over there back?

so Ray Finkle...have u ever lived in the middle east?

I thought so...


I did...i lived in the most liberal of all arab nations, namely in United Arab Emirates. I was thre during thefirst gulf war. it was a terrifying period of time even tho UAE didnt participate in the war, since Iraq, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Oman are all around it.


if u should know, Hussein doesnt perform acts of genocide. he might be supporting families in palestine and down with the war against israel but thats only in opposition to America.

If u have been following the news lately..not cnn but CBC which is unbiased...the Jordanians are absolutely pissed off with America cos Jordan and Iraq are like one country with all the trade and ties they have.

About the "being killed by american troops" bit..ur so fuckin pathethic to support the idea of being killed in the first place... tell me if u would like to be killed by a friend or someone u just met who u dont have any beef with.

hmm now why is America the most hated country in the world that all the acts of terrorism lately are against Americans???think about that...

wait ill answer it for u....because they stick their fuckin nose in everyone elses business to get popularity as being redeemers in the world.

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We are pretty fortunate here in Canada. We get to criticize America, yet our quality of life is directly tied to the existence of a superpower next door. Like it or not, it's pretty hard to avoid US cultural influence either.

Ol P.E.T had something to say about that relationship. Like sleeping with an elephant. The flipside is that the lions don't come near you if you're sleeping with a pachyderm.

Hypothesis: Were it not for the existence of a great military power to the south, would we reap such a large 'peace dividend'? Would we not have to spend more on national defence, diverting funds from other social programs?

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Hmm.....I didn't think it was possible but you managed to misread my entire post.

First off, I've never lived in the middle east which would have appeared evident by the wording of that question. Second, I would consider the gassing of quite a few of one large ethnic group(the Kurdish people) to be close enough to genocide. Thirdly, you're kidding yourself if you think that any one newsmedia source is unbiased nevertheless if you provide me with a source, I'd be happy to believe you. Not that Jordanian public opinion matters considering they are not involved. Besides, what makes you think that trade with Jordan once a new goverenment is in place would all of a sudden stop? I would believe that Jordan would see quite a bit of increase once they have a reasonble trading partner.

quote:

About the "being killed by american troops" bit..ur so fuckin pathethic to support the idea of being killed in the first place... tell me if u would like to be killed by a friend or someone u just met who u dont have any beef with.

Huh? were you reading my post? I didn't ask anywhere in that post who would you rather have kill you which is what I think you interpreted from it. Of course I don't support the idea of killing innocent people in this war and everyother war. Too bad Saddam doesn't share the same sort of compassion or else he would have followed INTERNATIONAL demands to exile the country. Also, you didn't answer my question,

quote:

... I'm just going to flat out ask all the people out there who oppose getting rid of Saddam especially the people who have lived in or grown up in or have excellent knowlege of the region: Are you saying that you would rather have Iraqis - Innocent and maybe even in some cases, relatives of yours - KILLED by a unstable, lunatic than for the US and co. to come in and get rid of the man holding everyone over there back?

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quote:

Originally posted by Wurm We are pretty fortunate here in Canada. We get to criticize America, yet our quality of life is directly tied to the existence of a superpower next door. Like it or not, it's pretty hard to avoid US cultural influence either. Ol P.E.T had something to say about that relationship. Like sleeping with an elephant. The flipside is that the lions don't come near you if you're sleeping with a pachyderm. Hypothesis: Were it not for the existence of a great military power to the south, would we reap such a large 'peace dividend'? Would we not have to spend more on national defence, diverting funds from other social programs?

so true....when i moved to canada, i noticed this wannabe symbiosis goin on and i found it absolutely insane because, as much as anyone wants to argue, we may depend on the US for trade, but unless tehy really needed the trade as well, they wouldnt be doin trade with us here.....yet the US hides their dependency on any other country and treats Canada and Mexico like just mere aquaintances while we basically kneel for them

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Ray Finkle, i replied to ur question but because of the way i worded it based on reality, u misread it..

if there were no sanctions on Iraq and no no-fly zone, everything would be as normal as in the 80s....people have suffered more under the sanctions tahn anything else...thats why there have been protests against the sanctions held in france and other parts of europe a couple of years ago

and do u really know why the Kurds were killed?

because they were anarchists.

now if people u support include Bush who are pro execution and abortion, and basically gets thousands of people killed a year by that, what difference is it to killing a batch of anarchists???

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Oh so the proper way of dealing with anarchists is to gas them? I better tell Cretien this before he goes to his next world summit. This could be a new and wonderful way of dealing with those pesky people that dislike governance!


As for the sanctions, SANCTIONS WHICH ARE APPROVED BY THE UN, they do hurt the people, however, without Saddam in power, there would be no more sanctions. Whose fault is it? By the way, here is an article dealing with the UN sactions on Iraq. It's from the CBC so don't worry about its impartiality...

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all im

quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle Oh so the proper way of dealing with anarchists is to gas them? I better tell Cretien this before he goes to his next world summit. This could be a new and wonderful way of dealing with those pesky people that dislike governance! As for the sanctions, SANCTIONS WHICH ARE APPROVED BY THE UN, they do hurt the people, however, without Saddam in power, there would be no more sanctions. Whose fault is it? By the way, here is an article dealing with the UN sactions on Iraq. It's from the CBC so don't worry about its impartiality...

ummm first off i didnt say it was good way to deal with them all i meant by that was taht Bush is as "evil"

and wheres ur great link???

i tell u from first hand sources of people who lived in iraq....


oh and BTW...i dont think u know that Hussein was brought into power by the US itself right??

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Yes but you said that Saddam was justified in killing them because they were "anarachists". It's funny, because if you lived in the US, you could be considered an anarchist. Better be thankful that you live in Canada, where our leader must be feeling sore from sitting on the fence for so long

Sorry for not including the link. OMG IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY CBC DOESN"T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW!!!!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/features/ira..._sanctions.html


Also, I don't think you know anything about Saddam

MORE CBC GOODNESS!!!!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/iraq/
few nice quotes

quote:

In 1958, the Iraqi monarchy – the same family that continues to rule neighbouring Jordan – was overthrown and Iraq became an Islamic republic. The king and most of his family were slaughtered in the coup. The next year, there was another coup attempt, but it failed. One of the members of the hit squad was a young officer who would later become famous: Saddam Hussein.

quote:

As the suffering became clear to the UN, the Security Council offered a special arrangement to Iraq, whereby it could sell its oil on the market and would receive, instead of money, food and medicine. Saddam Hussein, however, refused to accept the deal. The sanctions are a potent political weapon for him. As long as the suffering continues, he can play the part of the champion of the Iraqi people.

Yes, The US supported Iraq in its fight against Iran and that was a dumb move but Bush wasn't in power then so that really doesn't factor in to what is going on now.

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quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle Yes, The US supported Iraq in its fight against Iran and that was a dumb move but Bush wasn't in power then so that really doesn't factor in to what is going on now.

But many of the cronies that were part of the Reagan Administration are around now. Don 'I never shook hands with Saddam' Runsfeld (liar) among them.

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