I'm not gonna say anything more in this thread apart from:

Why is it so fucking hard for certain people to post links or excerpts to back up their arguments?!!?!?!?!?!?!

___________________
"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Even if I posted it, I know you wouldn't care. I've seen how you people act. Just have faith, that's all you need.

Actually we act this way only because your arguments are not really solid. If you'd put something believable or coherent, we'd have a much harder time disputing it.

quote:

Nope,because I've been reading up on evolution for a while now. There aren't any missing links that have been discovered, because I've read it in articles coming from scientists. There are missing links,and they will always be missing links.

Well, of course there will be missing links, since it's pretty hard to preserve a skeleton for millions of years. However, new fossile species are discovered every once in a while. Please, could you just say to which specific missing links you are refering to? In other words, where is the transitional leap so great that it's not obvious two species had a common ancestor?

quote:

How did I know you were going to ignore it? Mine isn't incorrect in any way, That's a perfect example of how it would happen. Proving it's not possible for an animal to survive.

Well, then how about my exampe of a possible fish->fish with wings evolution? Mind you, that is just an example of "micro"evolution, so I don't see what's the big deal with it anyway.

quote:

That's not true, I've read everything you've sent. sometimes I don't have anything to say.

Yes, but you're systematically ignoring the key arguments which destroy your thesis.

quote:

If I don't have anything to say, I'm not going to answer. I have no comments to make.That is being mature.

Yet you keep perpetuating your theory like it hasn't been refuted by those arguments. Ignoring them will not make them go away.

quote:

::nods:: that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. They are alllllll felines! Feline is a "species",ya following me? They are ALL felines, I will repeat that. That's MICRO not MACRO, MACRO is like cat to dog, THAT's TWO different species.

So all the felines belong to the same branch of animals. So we agree that they evolved from a common ancestor. Dogs, wolves, and bears did too. But guess what, when you go back through time, you'll see that the common ancestors of cats and wolves/dogs/bears had much more in common than current species have. So much infact, that they could be traced to another common ancestor. You see, "macro" evolution is a sequence of "micro"-evolutionary adaptations. Species don't evolve into other species in an instant. It takes many generations to do that.

quote:

To receive respect,you must show it. That's the rule. God says love your enimies, But don't be a doormat.

No he didn't. First he said something along the lines of smite your enemies, but later on he changed the stance to love your enemies, even beyond the doormat part. Don't forget that many christians were killed without any resistance whatsoever.

quote:

No the bones didn't wash away. They are still up there, frozen I do believe. Yes,they died together.

Well, obviously you didn't get Opus's point. If the bones were there as a cause of the flood, they would be washed away. Since they aren't washed away, it means there wasn't a flood. Get it now? Besides, if you find two corpses from a same geological period, it doesn't mean they died the very same minute. Hell, the time interval could have been hundreds of years. Ever heard of tar pits? You'll find numerous fossiles of predators and prey in them. Once they dry out, it will look like they died together.

But while we're at it, could you perhaps explain to me all the difficulties I mentioned about Noah's ark? Again, ignoring them will not make them go away

quote:

Sampson's strength wasn't his hair, It was God. God didn't murder anyone through him. Sampson asked for God's strength one more time, and God gave him strength.

Yet he lost his strength when he was shaved. So it was in the hair. And he did kill all the innocent people there, and god enabled him to do it. It's not like god didn't know what were his plans.

But let's get back to the beginning of this argument. Scientists found a ruined temple with broken down pillars. So what? It doesn't mean a person with superhuman powers did it, does it? To think so would be illogical.

quote:

No thanks,I've already had an earthquake here in VA. This wasn't a "thunderstorm " or just a "night time dark " I was speaking of. It was the middle of the day and it got dark, like really dark. It wasn't just a bunch of clouds gearing up for a storm. (Trust me,I know thunderstorms aswell,I spent 5 years in Florida.) Again, the earthquake wasn't just in Israel,It was all over the world.

So, what are your sources for this (except the bible, of course)?

quote:

Who are you to judge my beliefs then? who are you to tell me I'm ignorant? Who are you to tell me I'm incorrect? You see, it's not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot. But,God says to judge them by your fruits,and pal that's what I'm doing.

You are being ignorant since you are ignoring the presented evidence and are reiterating your point of view which is obviously contradictory to the aforementioned evidence. To prove your theory, you have to prove our arguments are false. so far you have not achieved it.

___________________
1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I haven't ignored everything. I've read what you've posted,but that doesn't mean I believe in it.

It matters little that you believe in it. It's a fact. I guess you don't have to believe that the sun is a star, or that your body is mostly comprised of water, or that the moon effects the tides, but they are all facts nonetheless.

Hence, your complete utter ignorance.

quote:

I listen to broadcasts from Focus on the family

Do they have scientists that refute evolution? Weblink or book source, please.

quote:

I watch Fox news

Did they ever promote creationism? Weblink source, please.

quote:

I watch the 700 club

So you're willing to listen to a guy that agreed with another nutbag (Falwell) that the reason 9/11 occurred was because of homosexuals? You'd rather listen to a guy that states the cause of natural disasters is because of unnatural acts?:

http://www.gendersanity.com/orlando.shtml

You're going to listen to a non-scientist talk about science? Why not listen to a scientist instead?

quote:

I read my biology,and physical creation book. I read articles in magazines and books my mother gets. That's where I find my scientific views.

Last time: cite sources damnit. I want sources so I can view them myself. You're lack of evidence babbling is becoming annoying. Give me an actual reference, or kindly shut the f$ck up.

quote:

Even if I posted it, I know you wouldn't care. I've seen how you people act. Just have faith, that's all you need.

But as I've said, I do care - I need to see your evidence in order to believe it. So again, give me specific evidence, or kindly move on and preach to someone else.

Can faith predict future research and future hypothesis? If, according to you, all I needed was faith, then all research conducted will have the same conclusion: Godidit. What good would science be, then? By this logic, there would be no point in having science at all. Would that make you happy?

Show me tested, observed, falsifiable evidence that faith is needed in the scientific realm, and I'll consider it. Otherwise, it has no place in science. Do you understand this basic tenet of science?

quote:

Yes, I remeber what you said about repetition,Dear. You aren't listening, I have no other choice except to repeat.

Wrong, Nessa. Your other choice is to give me evidence that hasn't already been refuted yet. Please do so, once again.

quote:

I'm not a slow learner. If I were, how else would I be doing what I do now? ( Musician producing/teaching.)

I am specifically referring to you willfully ignoring my questions about showing observed Creationist phenomena. Please do so now.

You also blatantly ignored my post in regards to Creationist Theory stating that no fossil transitions exist. Please respond now.

quote:

Nope,because I've been reading up on evolution for a while now. There aren't any missing links that have been discovered, because I've read it in articles coming from scientists. There are missing links,and they will always be missing links.

So what the hell did I just post on fossil transitions, then? Did all of those scientists just make it up, according to you? Is this a gigantic conspiracy, according to you?

And once again, who are these scientists you keep referring to? Where are the web sources? I'm getting quite tired of asking the same damn question, and having you evade me over and over. Kindly post a source, or go away. Put up or shut up.

quote:

Yea, I look at them right after I posted back to your reply.

And do you have a response in regards to them? Stop playing games and respond.

quote:

If you don't want to,that's your choice.

No, it is your choice, with the following statement you made once again:

quote:

No matter what you say,you still can't prove to me that Macro evolution is true.(even if you think those links explain everything.)

So if I can't convince you to understand speciation, why would I even bother trying? Please respond.

quote:

You were 16 yourself,my friend. Anyway,age doesn't always matter. But,I'm not ignorant, you want to keep this a clean debate? Then quit with the personal insults.

Indeed I was, and indeed I took the challenge of debating with others that new the material much better than myself. So perhaps I see a similar pattern with you here.

You dodged my response about finches. Please respond now.

quote:

Totally honest here.

Then you would have understood the basic tenet of evolution I outlined for you. Why did you not know that then?

quote:

How did I know you were going to ignore it? Mine isn't incorrect in any way, That's a perfect example of how it would happen. Proving it's not possible for an animal to survive.

Ignore? I was providing a similar parallel example to demonstrate how ridiculous your example was. It is virtually identical in absence of logic. If you don't have a good answer to my example, chances are there's not a good answer to your example.

Now, do you honestly want to know why? Please note my hints, they refer to your example:

quote:

(I’ll give you a hint: something to do with missing a few steps in the evolutionary ladder, misunderstanding natural selection entirely, missing completely what the fossil record shows us, etc. ).

There is no evidence whatsoever that shows it would make plausible sense for there to be a humongous jump up the evolutionary ladder from a fish to a bird. You missed about 20 different steps along the way, including amphibians, reptiles, and THEN birds. Again, have a look at the transitional fossil record evidence and see why there's no evidence for a jump from a fish to a bird:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq...art1a.html#fish

This partially why your statement made little sense. The rest was complete misunderstanding of natural selection. Do you need me to explain that as well, or do you already understand why you're way off the mark by now?

quote:

That's not true, I've read everything you've sent. sometimes I don't have anything to say.

But why? Everything I've given you refutes your ideas about evolution. Why don't you have anything else to say about them then if they show your beliefs against evolution are false?

quote:

I don't want to create another topic for a debate, That's to much to follow.

Too late. In my defense, I didn't start the thread.

quote:

If I don't have anything to say, I'm not going to answer. I have no comments to make.That is being mature.

Why don't you have comments?

quote:

Again, If I have nothing to say,I don't say anything. I have no comments to make.

Why?

quote:

Do as much work as you please, It's no skin off my nose.

Then kindly be more courteous and specifically post correctly so I can follow your arguments better, okay?

quote:

I've already read all that bull on the page friend,lol I'm tired of reading it.

I'm sorry the bull from scientists about science isn't good enough for you. Pat Robertson has much more insight on science, considering he isn't a scientist or researcher for that matter.

And besides, you dodged yet again the information I posted on that given link. Please respond to it now.

quote:

Yes, I learned it while in band class. Yea, you can keep that comment to yourself,I'm sure many of us would prefer it to be that way.

An even cuter response.

Just out of curiousity, are there home-school bands? I'm actually being serious. I myself was a band-geek (trombone), and my father is a high school band teacher. I just never heard of any home schooled bands, so I thought I'd ask.

quote:

::nods:: that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. They are alllllll felines! Feline is a "species",ya following me? They are ALL felines, I will repeat that. That's MICRO not MACRO, MACRO is like cat to dog, THAT's TWO different species.

Nessa, now I thought that you might actually be willingly ignorant until now. Rather, you simply have no freakin' idea what you're talking about, do you?

Feline is most certainly not a species. Feline, or the latin term Felidae, is a "Family" in the taxonomic system.

Let's do a quick review of taxonomy:

Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
genus
species

Now, since Felidae is a family, and NOT a species, they are therefore a different species. Here's an example:

1. Common Name: housecat:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Felis
species: domesticus

2. Common Name: Lion:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Felis
species: leo

Now do you finally understand that they are most certainly NOT the same species? If not, please explain.

quote:

Oh just drop it.

But why?

quote:

I don't misunderstand you.

Then you understand my point then. Good. Now please show me logically how God couldn't have told me that about you.

quote:

To receive respect,you must show it. That's the rule. God says love your enimies, But don't be a doormat.

Where's the scripture quote about not being a doormat? Your enemies do not have to show respect for you to be able to turn the other cheek and allow them to walk all over you. Didn't you read your Bible?

quote:

Personal insults are not part of a debate. If you think I'm ignorant,THat's your beef but keep it to yourself because your " repetition " isn't getting you anywhere. ( Hmm,sound familiar? )

Neither does ignorance or lack of understanding the other side's arguments. All are bad form for a debate, would you not agree?

quote:

^Read above.

Where above do you respond to the refutations on your website you gave as well as my response to Strobel's book? Please show me.

quote:

And you think I didn't know what you wanted from me the whole time? Wow, you must not be sleeping enough.:/ But, I don't agree with what you've just said.

Whether or not you agree that is how science is performed via methodological naturalism. If you want to perform a more perverted form of science, feel free to do so. Just understand that dunking witches until they drown will not cause the Bubonic Plague to disappear.

quote:

Yes I do, Have your doubts I don't care.

Alrighty. Let's see what you've got:

quote:

No the bones didn't wash away. They are still up there, frozen I do believe. Yes,they died together.

But didn't the flood reach over the mountain tops? Why wouldn't they be washed away then?

And if it didn't reach the mountain tops, are you inferring that they starved to death up there? It was only 40 days and nights, many could have survived on a strict adkins diet alone here, including eating one another (since their prey was up there too).

And you dodged once again the link I gave you. If the link addressed your concern, a response from you is necessary.

quote:

Sampson's strength wasn't his hair, It was God.

Judges 16:17
"That he told her all his heart, and said unto her, There hath not come a razor upon mine head; for I have been a Nazarite unto God from my mother's womb: if I be shaven, then my strength will go from me, and I shall become weak, and be like any other man."

Sounds like his hair was his strength to me. How could you interpret this any other way?

quote:

God didn't murder anyone through him. Sampson asked for God's strength one more time, and God gave him strength.

Judges 16:29
And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Judges 16:30
And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

So he didn't kill anyone? If God was his strength, like you claim, why did he appeal to God to knock down the pillars, killing himself and all who were inside (including Philistine WOMEN).

BTW, isn't suicide wrong?

quote:

No thanks,I've already had an earthquake here in VA. This wasn't a "thunderstorm " or just a "night time dark " I was speaking of. It was the middle of the day and it got dark, like really dark. It wasn't just a bunch of clouds gearing up for a storm. (Trust me,I know thunderstorms aswell,I spent 5 years in Florida.) Again, the earthquake wasn't just in Israel,It was all over the world.

So they were able to ask the Incas in Mexico? What about the Chinese? How 'bout the native American Indians? Is there any documentation anywhere else this event occured "all over the world?"

Did they have cell phones back then?

quote:

Muslims believe in the God of Isaac and Abraham. Christians believe in the God of Isaac an Abraham. It's the same God.

I thought you knew your Christianity. Do Christians not also believe in Jesus Christ being the son of God, and that they are one of the same?

What does the Koran say of Jesus?

quote:

Again,knock it off with the personal insults they don't get you anywhere. But hey,If you'd like I can be immature like you and go about insulting you back? Who are you to judge my beliefs then? who are you to tell me I'm ignorant? Who are you to tell me I'm incorrect? You see, it's not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot. But,God says to judge them by your fruits,and pal that's what I'm doing.

What part of my statement was a personal insult to you? I was explaining my personal journey from being a devout Christian to an empiricist (well, I'm still somewhat a deist, but that's where my faith pretty much ends). I can't understand how that would insult you, unless of course you have some personal spiritual issues that are reflecting out onto others here. But really, I honestly don't care.

And I'm not telling you anything about your faith and beliefs. I AM telling you, however, that when you bring those beliefs into the realm of scientific inquiry, they simply do not hold up because they cannot be observed, tested, and falsified. Now please tell me you finally understand this.

quote:

My education is much higher than a normal public schools is. When I tested at the end of the school year last year, My test came back and on the top it said that I had test 69% higher than the average people in my grade do. (My younger sister tested 72% higher.)

Congratulations. I'm sorry, I thought we were referring to higher education, i.e. college, were we not?

quote:

Such immaturity,and you said you were how old?

29. I'm just giving a little of the same that you are giving. I actually think it's quite fun. I guess I'll always be a kid at heart.




Now I have a quick question for you. Do you enjoy dance music? How did you learn about this website? Is it very Christian to enjoy music that's being played at raves and nightclubs? You know there's a very strict fundamental Christian belief that's against dancing, right? They didn't make the movie Footloose out of ficticious ideas, you know. So I'm just curious as to whether or not you have a conflict with this type of music with your beliefs.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by nic01445 i was kidding but thanks for the verses

Haha, i'm embarrassed, i thought you were just another fundamentalist, i keep on thinking Nessa will turn around and say, "i was being sarcastic"

anyway respect

edit: MrOpus reminds me of a cat toying with a battered mouse

Last edited by tathi on Feb-10-2004 at 23:04

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 It matters little that you believe in it. It's a fact. I guess you don't have to believe that the sun is a star, or that your body is mostly comprised of water, or that the moon effects the tides, but they are all facts nonetheless. Hence, your complete utter ignorance.

Let me just say I won't be replying to a lot,I'm not in the mood.
Because I'm dropping half of it.

quote:

Do they have scientists that refute evolution? Weblink or book source, please.

If so it will be on their webpage,and I don't know their url.

quote:

Did they ever promote creationism? Weblink source, please.

I'm sure they have. Otherwise it'll be on foxnews.com

quote:

http://www.gendersanity.com/orlando.shtml You're going to listen to a non-scientist talk about science? Why not listen to a scientist instead?

No I do listen to scientists,I also read from my school books.

quote:

Last time: cite sources damnit. I want sources so I can view them myself. You're lack of evidence babbling is becoming annoying. Give me an actual reference, or kindly shut the f$ck up.

Getting testy are we?

quote:

Can faith predict future research and future hypothesis? If, according to you, all I needed was faith, then all research conducted will have the same conclusion: Godidit. What good would science be, then? By this logic, there would be no point in having science at all. Would that make you happy?

Science can back up God,the tape I'm watching in biology right now prooves it. I wish I could remeber the name of it, But I can't remeber right now.

quote:

I am specifically referring to you willfully ignoring my questions about showing observed Creationist phenomena. Please do so now. You also blatantly ignored my post in regards to Creationist Theory stating that no fossil transitions exist. Please respond now.

I have nothin to say.

quote:

And do you have a response in regards to them? Stop playing games and respond.

I'm not to be demanded. Not everything is on the internet you know.

quote:

Indeed I was, and indeed I took the challenge of debating with others that new the material much better than myself. So perhaps I see a similar pattern with you here.

No, I doubt it.

quote:

Ignore? I was providing a similar parallel example to demonstrate how ridiculous your example was. It is virtually identical in absence of logic. If you don't have a good answer to my example, chances are there's not a good answer to your example.

It's not ridiculous. It's correct.

quote:

There is no evidence whatsoever that shows it would make plausible sense for there to be a humongous jump up the evolutionary ladder from a fish to a bird. You missed about 20 different steps along the way, including amphibians, reptiles, and THEN birds. Again, have a look at the transitional fossil record evidence and see why there's no evidence for a jump from a fish to a bird: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq...art1a.html#fish This partially why your statement made little sense. The rest was complete misunderstanding of natural selection. Do you need me to explain that as well, or do you already understand why you're way off the mark by now?

No, I'm not way off the mark.You aren't understanding me.

quote:

Too late. In my defense, I didn't start the thread.

Oh well ::shrugs:: no biggie.

quote:

Why don't you have comments?

Simple,just because I don't.

quote:

I'm sorry the bull from scientists about science isn't good enough for you. Pat Robertson has much more insight on science, considering he isn't a scientist or researcher for that matter.

I didn't say I got all my sources from 700 Club, the fact of the matter is the 700 club has guests that explain this. (I saw a broadcast a while back, but it's been like a LONG time ago.:/)

quote:

And besides, you dodged yet again the information I posted on that given link. Please respond to it now.

I didn't dodge it, I just don't have comments to make on it. If I don't, you shouldn't force me to make comments on it.

quote:

Just out of curiousity, are there home-school bands? I'm actually being serious. I myself was a band-geek (trombone), and my father is a high school band teacher. I just never heard of any home schooled bands, so I thought I'd ask.

Nope,no homeschool bands I know of. homeschoolers are allowed to classes in the public school system ( after all,my parents are tax payers. ) Before I was diagnosed, I took classes for band. (yes, Band geek here to, except Clarinetest and bass clarinetest.) Really? I'm not a highschool band teacher BUT, I do teach Violin and Clarinet ( Private lessons.)

quote:

Nessa, now I thought that you might actually be willingly ignorant until now. Rather, you simply have no freakin' idea what you're talking about, do you?

::rolls eyes:: Let's not even start.I'm willing to drop it if you will.

quote:

Feline is most certainly not a species. Feline, or the latin term Felidae, is a "Family" in the taxonomic system. Let's do a quick review of taxonomy: Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family genus species Now, since Felidae is a family, and NOT a species, they are therefore a different species. Here's an example: 1. Common Name: housecat: Kingdom: Animalia Phylum: Chordata Class: Mammalia Order: Carnivora Family: Felidae Genus: Felis species: domesticus 2. Common Name: Lion: Kingdom: Animalia Phylum: Chordata Class: Mammalia Order: Carnivora Family: Felidae Genus: Felis species: leo Now do you finally understand that they are most certainly NOT the same species? If not, please explain.

And you think I didn't know the order? Please.. I had a test on it.

quote:

Where's the scripture quote about not being a doormat? Your enemies do not have to show respect for you to be able to turn the other cheek and allow them to walk all over you. Didn't you read your Bible?

Of course those aren't the exact words, But that's the general idea. Yes, turn the other cheek. But, you aren't supposed to let people walk all over you,I had a class about that in Sunday school. ( If only I could remeber what verse!)Why would anyone in their right mind do that anyway?

quote:

Neither does ignorance or lack of understanding the other side's arguments. All are bad form for a debate, would you not agree?

No comments.

quote:

Where above do you respond to the refutations on your website you gave as well as my response to Strobel's book? Please show me.

I have no comments on this.

quote:

Whether or not you agree that is how science is performed via methodological naturalism. If you want to perform a more perverted form of science, feel free to do so.

quote:

Just understand that dunking witches until they drown will not cause the Bubonic Plague to disappear.

No one said it would.

quote:

But didn't the flood reach over the mountain tops? Why wouldn't they be washed away then? And if it didn't reach the mountain tops, are you inferring that they starved to death up there? It was only 40 days and nights, many could have survived on a strict adkins diet alone here, including eating one another (since their prey was up there too).

No, they animal and prey were laying together trying to avoid the flood.

quote:

Judges 16:17 "That he told her all his heart, and said unto her, There hath not come a razor upon mine head; for I have been a Nazarite unto God from my mother's womb: if I be shaven, then my strength will go from me, and I shall become weak, and be like any other man." Sounds like his hair was his strength to me. How could you interpret this any other way?

One word " Symbolism"

quote:

Judges 16:29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Yes, I know that.

quote:

Judges 16:30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

quote:

So he didn't kill anyone? If God was his strength, like you claim, why did he appeal to God to knock down the pillars, killing himself and all who were inside (including Philistine WOMEN). BTW, isn't suicide wrong?

Physically,yes there were people killed. but,I'm thinking we're skipping over some key verses here.
Do you have any idea what the Philistines did to Israelies?(I'm pretty sure it was the philistines,Looking it up now.)

quote:

So they were able to ask the Incas in Mexico? What about the Chinese? How 'bout the native American Indians? Is there any documentation anywhere else this event occured "all over the world?" Did they have cell phones back then?

One of my youth pastors in 8th grade was explaining this. Scientists all over the world had recorded this, and they brought all the evidence together and found the dates and such.
Sorry to disappoint, No cell phones.

quote:

I thought you knew your Christianity. Do Christians not also believe in Jesus Christ being the son of God, and that they are one of the same? What does the Koran say of Jesus?

I had someone I knew that is Muslim. He told me they believe in The God of Abraham and Isaac, Christians also believe in the same God. They just don't believe Jesus is God's son,they don't believe he died. They just think he was a prophet. Their religion is different,but we both believe in the same God.

quote:

What part of my statement was a personal insult to you? I was explaining my personal journey from being a devout Christian to an empiricist (well, I'm still somewhat a deist, but that's where my faith pretty much ends). I can't understand how that would insult you, unless of course you have some personal spiritual issues that are reflecting out onto others here. But really, I honestly don't care.

If you don't care,then why are we still conversing about this?

quote:

Congratulations. I'm sorry, I thought we were referring to higher education, i.e. college, were we not?

I'm not in college,why would we be speaking about it? ( One year to go,and I'll finally be out of highschool! Although I'm not sure if that's good or bad just yet.)

quote:

Now I have a quick question for you. Do you enjoy dance music? How did you learn about this website? Is it very Christian to enjoy music that's being played at raves and nightclubs? You know there's a very strict fundamental Christian belief that's against dancing, right? They didn't make the movie Footloose out of ficticious ideas, you know. So I'm just curious as to whether or not you have a conflict with this type of music with your beliefs.

Of course I enjoy dance music, I produce/compose happy hardcore/rave and hardcore music,I have for years. I listen to pretty much nothing but music within the dance genre.
Friend of mine told me about this forum.

The only time I have an issue with music is if the lyrics are filled with nothing but swear words, sex talk, things about drugs and murdering people... Things that shouldn't be talked about pretty much.

So,what's the matter with dance music? Nothing at all. It's just music, and the fact of the matter is, being serious isn't being a good Christian. ( I hate when people think that. :/ ) God wasn't boring, so why should we be?

I'm not a " strict " Christian. I don't follow that religion stuff,and that's what makes a lot of Christians strict. ( I just believe in God's saving grace,and believe Jesus died on the cross to save our sins,and then I got saved. )

But,nope. It's music, and I don't see why any Christian would have a problem with this kind of music.

___________________
~Nessa

quote:

http://www.gendersanity.com/orlando.shtml

Wanted to pull this one out seperatly.

First of all,God does not stand neutral on sexuality.
If you look up Leviticus 18:22 it clearly states the following.
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
This isn't the only verse,I will search for others.


This doesn't mean God HATES homosexuals. God loves all people, this is true. But, he doesn't condone the lifestyle. A lot of people get this confused.

I don't believe God is going to send tornados,and junk like that to "wipe out" homosexuality. But, I know for each sin there is a consequence. Everyone sins,and everyone has to deal with the consequence afterward.

___________________
~Nessa

Point, Game, Set, Match. I must say I've been in a lot of arguments, but I've never seen an argument reduced to the point where a person is refusing to comment on the basis that they don't feel like it, or where they are unwilling to give any evidence for the reason that people would ignore it.


My personal favorites: Unicorns, Noah's ark, animals living on the peak of a mountain for 40 days while not eating each other, How we can go from this:




to this





In a few thousand years of man-influenced "micro" evolution is a fact, yet going from this:




to this




In millions of years of "macro" evolution is a blatant falsehood.

Hmmmm I also really liked how Sampson's specific pillars were found (and proved to be genuine no doubt), how scientists all across the world (even in the undiscovered parts) crossed the seven seas to have a convention proving the exact cocurrence and timing of world-wide catastrophes, the denials and refutations of bible contradictions, how the bible is "symbolic" when it suits creationists yet "fact" when they are trying to make a case against science, and how I was able to work in a simpson's reference ... hmmm I think that's it, I hope I'm not leaving anything out, there was a lot of good stuff. On that ending note, I shall graciously exit with another simpsons reference.





"I've followed every part of the Bible--even the parts that contradict the other parts."




btw, while looking up pictures for transitonal fossils I stumbled upon several new stories that I didn't know about and were somewhat interesting:

rapid changes from simple mutations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1806757.stm

major breakthrough in theory of evolutionary divergence:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1418794.stm

Figured I would share with fellow believers in evolution who might comment and with creationists whose non-comment I most certainly look forward to as well.

___________________
Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Feb-11-2004 at 05:49

you crack me up occrider

edit: science is a conspiracy created by mustard eating communists to put christianity into disrepute

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1418794.stm

quote:

Monotremes, which lay eggs and are represented now only by the duck-billed platypus and the spiny anteater

its an Echidna not a spiny anteater

i think you will also find Australias 'megafauna' interesting, including marsupial herbivores, ancestores of the kangaroo and the wombat which were around the size of elephants

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewss...12091/story.htm

i have to go to work so i can't find any decent pics but they're out there

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Let me just say I won't be replying to a lot,I'm not in the mood. Because I'm dropping half of it.

Unfortunately, you keep dropping key issues and responding only to the parts which don't directly contradict your theory.

quote:

Science can back up God,the tape I'm watching in biology right now prooves it. I wish I could remeber the name of it, But I can't remeber right now.

Well, if you can't remember the name of the tape, you could at least present us with information it contained. Just saying that there is a tape, but you don't know what it's called, as well as not telling us the contents is not gonna do.

quote:

I have nothin to say.

Then we must take it that you agree with what he posted. Interesting, as it obviously contradicts your theory.

quote:

It's not ridiculous. It's correct.

Why didn't you answer to my example then?

quote:

Simple,just because I don't.

Again, if you don't comment on it, it will be taken as your silent approval. The things he mentioned are impossible if creationist theory is correct.

quote:

I didn't dodge it, I just don't have comments to make on it. If I don't, you shouldn't force me to make comments on it.

Actually he should because you reiterate a theory that has been shattered by that evidence. It's like me saying the sky is blue. Then you say, no the sky is green. Then I show you the encyclopedia where it says it's blue. Then you say again no, it's green. Then I measure the color of the sky with a spectrometer and it shows it's blue. Then again you say no, it's green. If you keep perpetuating a thesis without any solid backup against a very solid theory, then it's perfectly normal for others to demand evidence for your claims.

quote:

Of course those aren't the exact words, But that's the general idea. Yes, turn the other cheek. But, you aren't supposed to let people walk all over you,I had a class about that in Sunday school. ( If only I could remeber what verse!)

It's pretty convinient how the bible contains so much contradictory elements that you can basically defend any point of view using bible verses as a reference

quote:

Why would anyone in their right mind do that anyway?

Well, according to the bible, Jesus did it

quote:

No one said it would.

Well, again you seem to not know the history of your religion. Do you know who was accused of the plague? Cats and witches. Someone derived from the bible that since cats are mostly nocturnal, and since god (in the new testament) has many solar references (hint, Osiris, hint, Horus), cats are the cause of the plague. In accordance with witches, of course. So, aside from dunking witches (if they managed to swim out, satan helped them and they were killed, if they drowned, then they were not witches and, well, life sucks) cats were also murdered. However, rats were largely responsible for the spread of the plague. So when cats were killed off, rats multiplied greatly and caused the plague to spread faster.

quote:

No, they animal and prey were laying together trying to avoid the flood.

Hmm, here you again failed to respond to my explanation. Again, if they reached the mountain top, the flood would most likely wash them away. Also, if the skeletons are from the same geological period, it doesn't mean they died in the same day. Again, I refer you to the tar pits example I mentioned, a place where you'll find a huge amount of different skeletons. And they aren't on any mountain top. It's like visiting an old graveyard and saying that a slaughter took place there because there are so many dead bodies on the same place.

quote:

One word " Symbolism"

No, you said bible should be taken literally. Samson's strength relied in his hair, and in his hair alone.

quote:

Physically,yes there were people killed. but,I'm thinking we're skipping over some key verses here.

Oh, so he only killed them physically? How nice of him!

quote:

Do you have any idea what the Philistines did to Israelies?(I'm pretty sure it was the philistines,Looking it up now.)

Well, they should have turned the other cheek, right? Besides, even if they slaughtered off many israelis, it just shows the tribal mentality present in the early bible. Us against them. Well, what about judging people individually? Besides, what did the israelis do to other nations? They did conquer Canaan, right? Well, they had to slaughter off some canaanites to do that.

quote:

One of my youth pastors in 8th grade was explaining this. Scientists all over the world had recorded this, and they brought all the evidence together and found the dates and such. Sorry to disappoint, No cell phones.

0AD scientists? Interesting. Besides, the calendars of that period are so unreliable. We really don't know if Jesus existed, let alone when he died. So we can't pinpoint such an occurance to the same exact day. Besides, where's your evidence for this?

quote:

I had someone I knew that is Muslim. He told me they believe in The God of Abraham and Isaac, Christians also believe in the same God. They just don't believe Jesus is God's son,they don't believe he died. They just think he was a prophet. Their religion is different,but we both believe in the same God.

No, you believe in a similar god. Christians infact believe in a dual god (polytheism?), god on the heaven and his son Jesus.

quote:

Of course I enjoy dance music, I produce/compose happy hardcore/rave and hardcore music,I have for years. I listen to pretty much nothing but music within the dance genre.

Heh, while we're at it, I'm wondering how Opus got into dance music scene, since he's coming from a similar environment?

quote:

I'm not a " strict " Christian. I don't follow that religion stuff,and that's what makes a lot of Christians strict. ( I just believe in God's saving grace,and believe Jesus died on the cross to save our sins,and then I got saved. )

No, you're not a stict catholic, but you are a strict protestant.

quote:

But,nope. It's music, and I don't see why any Christian would have a problem with this kind of music.

Well, because some christians consider music to be evil only if it's not about god.

___________________
1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Point, Game, Set, Match. I must say I've been in a lot of arguments, but I've never seen an argument reduced to the point where a person is refusing to comment on the basis that they don't feel like it, or where they are unwilling to give any evidence for the reason that people would ignore it.

This is why I love these debates with Creationists. It almost always ends up the same. I seriously had a helluva lot of fun this past week. I put off so much crap at work, and it was worth every damn minute of procrastination! Seriously, there are simply no better debates than those pertaining to life and nature.

quote:

"I've followed every part of the Bible--even the parts that contradict the other parts."

I love that quote! That's coming damn close to being stuck in my sig.!

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Heh, Nellie, you might be interested in this:

Human:
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Hominae
Genus: Homo
Species: Sapiens

Chimpanzee:
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Pongidae
Subfamily: Ponginae
Genus: Pan
Species: Troglodytes

So, we and the chimps are the members of a single superfamily. So we could have micro-evolved from each other, right?

___________________
1+1=10