quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter I find it troubling that so many people seem to believe that the fundamental problem of which this kind of incident is symptomatic is guns and gun control. The gun is merely a tool, a means to an end. It has no will of its own, nor any ability to create such a situation of its own accord. To suggest that the best way to have prevented this situation would have been to restrict the availability of guns to the culprit seems to me to be a dangerously short-sighted cop-out designed specifically to avoid addressing the more complex and fundamental issues at hand, namely, the circumstances which gave rise to the individual's decision to use a gun to cause harm to other people. Removing all guns from the face of the Earth wouldn't address this problem in the least. Guns are only tools, and there are many alternatives if one's objective is to kill or injure other individuals.

Ok, this post is wrong on so many levels. The first sentence I agree with. The problem is not related to guns or gun control, if this person had the ability to control his emotions there wouldn't have been a shooting or a suicide.

Ok, that done, lets go to the dreaded second sentence. "A gun is a tool"... Yes it is, and it's a highly effective tool, it makes killing a lot more effective than say a knife (in which you have to get up close). Killing with a gun is a lot more impersonal, which makes it a lot easier for someone to do.

"A gun has no will of it's own" - that's obvious, no one was disputing this. The flaw of this point is simple. There is no point. The issue in terms of debate is not about the personal will of the gun... ie an inanimate object, it's about the effectiveness of the gun as a lethal weapon. You are shifting the point to something NOT important. Intelligent proponents of gun control base their arguments on the effectiveness of the weapon. The school shooter could NOT have done what we did with a knife. (Nuff said)

... of course a gun can not create a situation of it's own accord. Stating the obvious does not win points. Especially since the basis of the gun control debate is not about the will of the gun, but about the firepower of the gun. A gun is the equivalent of a microwave when one compares to cooking. Just pop a bullet in and shoot someone. A gun is a weapon of conveiniance, you can kill faster and more effectively with a knife. Murder at the mere pull of a trigger... Kind of like popping a slice of pizza in the microwave... Yes, I'm talking conveiniance here.

... The circumstances that have given rise to the issue are not related to the issue of gun control. That is the bullying issue that newspapers often report on. Yes, people need appreciation and love, and when they get bullied instead, they tend to feel rejected and have low self esteem... There are different ways to address this, but this issue has nothing to do with gun control. Although a gun does give a victim a quick and more efficient way of exacting revenge.

I will honestly say that I am neither pro, nor against gun control. I just dont like a poorly written argument. I simply dont like the argument... "guns dont kill people, people do". It's just a bad argument to adept thinkers.

Now if you want to debate about just how many guns there are, and the fact that it would be near impossible to get rid of all of them effectively... I'm game. Although I really dont like the argument that only bad guys will end up with guns if guns are outlawed. I see that point as emotional drivel.

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Originally posted by Zild The reason I know about it is because the Cheif of Police in San Antonio Al Phillipus wouldn't let them do any exercises in the city and they made a big stink about it. I've also seen video tapes of the exercises. Some of them are as simple as joint police/military checkpoints on the highway telling anyone they want to pull over and searching them to police/military teams rappelling out of black helicopters at night and disarming actors that are pleading with them saying things like "I'm a US citizen! What are you doing? Please stop!" stuff like that. The exercises were allowed in other major cities though.

you're such a fucking liar..

go play with alex jones

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Originally posted by Ripped Bag you're such a fucking liar.. go play with alex jones

Post a pic like that again and i'm gonna have to suspend you.
That was uncalled for and as you've been here a good long time now, would have thought you would know better

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Originally posted by Verona^My Ok, this post is wrong on so many levels. The first sentence I agree with. The problem is not related to guns or gun control, if this person had the ability to control his emotions there wouldn't have been a shooting or a suicide.

Then why are we talking about gun control to begin with? For fun? The fact is that every "gun violence" problem comes back to this very issue: the perpetrator simply lacks the self-discipline or moral center necessary to make the proper decision not to use the gun to hurt innocent people. The point, which you would have picked up on if you weren't so dense, is that the entire gun control issue is a red herring. It addresses no issues, solves no problems, and fixes nothing that's broken.

Gun control is irrelevant if no-one makes the decision to use guns improperly. That is the cause of gun violence, rather than the firepower of a gun - that is merely incidental, a classic complex cause fallacy if I've ever seen one.

When an issue itself is a fallacy, and when that issue's fundamental argument is a fallacy, don't you think the issue is best left in the philosophical trash bin? In case you haven't figured it out yet, my post was not an argument about the merits of gun control at all, but rather the lack of relevance that gun control has to the issue that is the topic of this thread. It was a statement that I'm tired of seeing cretins like you drag your gun control bullshit into discussions where it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever.

In summary: I'm tired of people who can't string two thoughts together without tripping over their nose; I'm disgusted by people who try to capitalize on tragic situations to advance their petty and irrelevant political agendas; And I'm tired of people who lack elementary school-level reading comprehension and couldn't identify the conclusion of an argument if their life depended on it. In other words, I would consider it fitting and proper if you and everyone else in this thread who has gone out of their way to spread irrelevant gun control propaganda were the victims of the next big shooting spree. Do you get it now, or do you require further clarification?

Wow. The US is a very screwed up country. Oh well, I'm not gonna get involved, it's your problem, can't blame anyone but yourselves.

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Originally posted by Wicked Neo Post a pic like that again and i'm gonna have to suspend you. That was uncalled for and as you've been here a good long time now, would have thought you would know better

Hmm must've switched when I hyperlinked it.. was a picture of a guy in a tinfoil hat.

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Originally posted by Ripped Bag Hmm must've switched when I hyperlinked it.. was a picture of a guy in a tinfoil hat.

I'll check my links next time

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Originally posted by Ripped Bag Hmm must've switched when I hyperlinked it.. was a picture of a guy in a tinfoil hat.

Not to everyone else!

it was ummm well a montage of the worst filth ever including weird insertions into a penis, goatse & *******.

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Originally posted by Wicked Neo Not to everyone else! it was ummm well a montage of the worst filth ever including weird insertions into a penis, goatse & *******.

holy crap

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Originally posted by Wicked Neo Not to everyone else! it was ummm well a montage of the worst filth ever including weird insertions into a penis, goatse & *******.

It's common for a host to automatically switch a picture to something else, when you steal their bandwidth. I've seen the "*******" on TA once before, it was not nice at all.