quote:

Your problem is, you connect dots which are completely not connectible. I mean seriously...Wall Street bankers are behind all of our problems?...seriously dude......not saying they are God's gift to America, but you are seriously diluting reality. Bankers and the NSA, those are two dots you're attempting to connect, which is completely fallacious.

I am not connecting dots between the two, you guys are saying that. They are both completely separate entities, both of which are or have already destroyed your freedoms in one way or another.

quote:

I wish. No playing supreme commander until I finish work im afraid. But don’t worry, I plan to get amongst it some time this weekend. Much more fun than constantly searching for lies and distortions to post here. Got any more jew haters to support your argument?

Well then point the lies out then?

All I see is a troll posting that everything you don't agree with is a lie and a distortion in every thread without anything proving it is a actual lie.

Distorted? Yes you are.

Thanks for coming out.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Well then point the lies out then?

i did, re kennedy. but in typical conspiracy theorist style, you just stick your head in the sand. i pointed out that your 'expert' on the fed was really just a jew-hating bigot, and then you stick your head back in the sand.

you have no commitment to 'truth' so why would i bother taking the time to go through each and every mistake that you make? complete waste of time. you'll continue in your ignorance of the world, making absolutely zero difference to all these things you whinge about. its not my job to save you from yourself.

go back to school kid.

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i did, re kennedy. but in typical conspiracy theorist style, you just stick your head in the sand. i pointed out that your 'expert' on the fed was really just a jew-hating bigot, and then you stick your head back in the sand.

Your opinion and the reality of it are two very different things.

You have proven nothing.

Only the ignorant and uneducated think kennedy was trying to abolish the fed. That's accepted historical fact champ. It is you that haven't proven anything, as the onus is with you.

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Only the ignorant and uneducated think kennedy was trying to abolish the fed. That's accepted historical fact champ. It is you that haven't proven anything, as the onus is with you.

Sure there buddy, what was the reason of printing currency issued from the United States then?

I doubt that Kennedy would go ahead and print 4 BILLION dollars of $2.00 and $5.00 bills if he had intended on keeping the funny money from the Fed.

The $10.00 and $20.00 bills never made circulation as Kennedy was assassinated.

This is fact, not those couple of bogus links you posted up and hold up like a bible.

John F. Kennedy vs The Federal reserve





On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.

When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy - the author of Profiles in Courage -signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency -money - without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 [the full text is displayed further below] gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there. As a result, more than $4 billion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated but were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assassinated. It appears obvious that President Kennedy knew the Federal Reserve Notes being used as the purported legal currency were contrary to the Constitution of the United States of America.

"United States Notes" were issued as an interest-free and debt-free currency backed by silver reserves in the U.S. Treasury. We compared a "Federal Reserve Note" issued from the private central bank of the United States (the Federal Reserve Bank a/k/a Federal Reserve System), with a "United States Note" from the U.S. Treasury issued by President Kennedy's Executive Order. They almost look alike, except one says "Federal Reserve Note" on the top while the other says "United States Note". Also, the Federal Reserve Note has a green seal and serial number while the United States Note has a red seal and serial number.

President Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963 and the United States Notes he had issued were immediately taken out of circulation. Federal Reserve Notes continued to serve as the legal currency of the nation. According to the United States Secret Service, 99% of all U.S. paper "currency" circulating in 1999 are Federal Reserve Notes.

Kennedy knew that if the silver-backed United States Notes were widely circulated, they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve Notes. This is a very simple matter of economics. The USN was backed by silver and the FRN was not backed by anything of intrinsic value. Executive Order 11110 should have prevented the national debt from reaching its current level (virtually all of the nearly $9 trillion in federal debt has been created since 1963) if LBJ or any subsequent President were to enforce it. It would have almost immediately given the U.S. Government the ability to repay its debt without going to the private Federal Reserve Banks and being charged interest to create new "money". Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S.A. the ability to, once again, create its own money backed by silver and realm value worth something.

Again, according to our own research, just five months after Kennedy was assassinated, no more of the Series 1958 "Silver Certificates" were issued either, and they were subsequently removed from circulation. Perhaps the assassination of JFK was a warning to all future presidents not to interfere with the private Federal Reserve's control over the creation of money. It seems very apparent that President Kennedy challenged the "powers that exist behind U.S. and world finance". With true patriotic courage, JFK boldly faced the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt:

1) war (Viet Nam); and,

2) the creation of money by a privately owned central bank. His efforts to have all U.S. troops out of Vietnam by 1965 combined with Executive Order 11110 would have destroyed the profits and control of the private Federal Reserve Bank.


Executive Order 11110

AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY. By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:

SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended - (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j): "(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption," and (b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof. SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

JOHN F. KENNEDY THE WHITE HOUSE, June 4, 1963


Once again, Executive Order 11110 is still valid. According to Title 3, United States Code, Section 301 dated January 26, 1998:

Executive Order (EO) 10289 dated Sept. 17, 1951, 16 F.R. 9499, was as amended by:

EO 10583, dated December 18, 1954, 19 F.R. 8725;

EO 10882 dated July 18, 1960, 25 F.R. 6869;

EO 11110 dated June 4, 1963, 28 F.R. 5605;

EO 11825 dated December 31, 1974, 40 F.R. 1003;

EO 12608 dated September 9, 1987, 52 F.R. 34617

The 1974 and 1987 amendments, added after Kennedy's 1963 amendment, did not change or alter any part of Kennedy's EO 11110. A search of Clinton's 1998 and 1999 EO's and Presidential Directives has also shown no reference to any alterations, suspensions, or changes to EO 11110.

The Federal Reserve Bank, a.k.a Federal Reserve System, is a Private Corporation. Black's Law Dictionary defines the "Federal Reserve System" as: "Network of twelve central banks to which most national banks belong and to which state chartered banks may belong. Membership rules require investment of stock and minimum reserves." Privately-owned banks own the stock of the FED. This was explained in more detail in the case of Lewis v. United States, Federal Reporter, 2nd Series, Vol. 680, Pages 1239, 1241 (1982), where the court said: "Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stock-holding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors".

The Federal Reserve Banks are locally controlled by their member banks. Once again, according to Black's Law Dictionary, we find that these privately owned banks actually issue money:

"Federal Reserve Act. Law which created Federal Reserve banks which act as agents in maintaining money reserves, issuing money in the form of bank notes, lending money to banks, and supervising banks. Administered by Federal Reserve Board (q.v.)".

The privately owned Federal Reserve (FED) banks actually issue (create) the "money" we use. In 1964, the House Committee on Banking and Currency, Subcommittee on Domestic Finance, at the second session of the 88th Congress, put out a study entitled Money Facts which contains a good description of what the FED is: "The Federal Reserve is a total money-making machine. It can issue money or checks. And it never has a problem of making its checks good because it can obtain the $5 and $10 bills necessary to cover its check simply by asking the Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving to print them".

Any one person or any closely knit group who has a lot of money has a lot of power. Now imagine a group of people who have the power to create money. Imagine the power these people would have. This is exactly what the privately owned FED is!

No man did more to expose the power of the FED than Louis T. McFadden, who was the Chairman of the House Banking Committee back in the 1930s. In describing the FED, he remarked in the Congressional Record, House pages 1295 and 1296 on June 10, 1932:

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government Board, has cheated the Government of the United States and he people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the maladministration of that law by which the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it".

Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are not Government institutions, departments, or agencies. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers. Those 12 private credit monopolies were deceitfully placed upon this country by bankers who came here from Europe and who repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions.

The FED basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to the FED banks. They create money, then loan it back to the government charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt. On this point, it's interesting to note that the Federal Reserve Act and the sixteenth amendment, which gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in 1913. The incredible power of the FED over the economy is universally admitted. Some people, especially in the banking and academic communities, even support it. On the other hand, there are those, such as President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, that have spoken out against it. His efforts were spoken about in Jim Marrs' 1990 book Crossfire:"

Another overlooked aspect of Kennedy's attempt to reform American society involves money. Kennedy apparently reasoned that by returning to the constitution, which states that only Congress shall coin and regulate money, the soaring national debt could be reduced by not paying interest to the bankers of the Federal Reserve System, who print paper money then loan it to the government at interest. He moved in this area on June 4, 1963, by signing Executive Order 11110 which called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve System. That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the weakened U.S. currency.


The rest,


http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN surprised to see you post in here! excellent post too. but the economic slavery you are talking about is coming from capitalism, not the evil machinations of the federal reserve. capitalism IS economic slavery, and i think zeitgeist is not only dishonest in the portrayal of this slavery, but the stuff it does get right is rather redundant given the volumes that have been written and screened on the subject. there's no point in rallying people behind a cause if you're not really teaching them how things really are.

the Fed is a very small part of the documentary bro, coincidentally its the first part, how far did you get through? im focusing on the economic hitman because even though i believe that there is something fishy going on with the fed i wouldn't be able to explain why until i research it more so im just going to keep my mouth shut on that subject

anyway, "economic slavery = capatalism"

doesnt say much about capatalism does it, i guess to be truly free we need be communists and get rid of the money supply like Pol Pot?

seriously though i dont understand what your trying to get accross when you agree with zeitgeist by saying capatilism in its current from is slavery and then say its dishonest?

i dont agree with you at all when you say rehashing economic slavery is redundant because its been done a thousand times before; the more things like this come out in the open the better, being the number 1 video on google means it has a lot of reach and hopefully like me people will see this and do there own research. and even if people only watch this and parrot it to others thats good because the more awareness we can create on the issue the better because this subject has has remained largely clandestine except in intelletual circles who listen to the likes of Chomsky

it is a fact that capatalism in its current form submits billions of people into economic slavery; the debate is whether the most powerful corporations in the world (being blinded by greed) have done this unwittingly or if it has been and is a culculated and conscious choice made by the worlds richest and most powerful who pull the strings of these corporations. it only takes one CEO to make a huge difference in the world whether it be for good or for evil (as cliche as that sounds)

if you had watched the second half of Zeitgeist which you will like if you keep an open mind (anyone who likes sci fi and imagining what the world could be like in the future would enjoy it) you would see that it offers alternatives to the current system. now these alternatives are extremely moon eyed and utopian in nature but when you think of how much the world has changed in the last 50 years its intellectually myopic not to wonder 'what if' when we imagine what the world could become in the next 50 years

what is terrifying is what the world will become if we do not change our current belief systems and the power structures that rule our societies. this belief that limitless consumerism in a finite world is sustainable is wrong. there is no argument about it. we must change this limited 20th century belief if we wish to continue to live harmoniously with that which sustains us (the environment) every eco system on earth is either irreperably damaged or showing signs of damage, the world is slowly dieing and things must change dramatically in the way we live our lives or we are in store for some horrifying wars over resources in the future

now, i was surprised that zeitgeist didnt mention the silent revolution happening in "Social Enterprise" at the moment, the problem is that while the alternatives offered int he second half are great in theory they are rather outlandish given todays political climate, (in the future they should become more pragmatic, maybe they are now, i havent looked into the technology...)

"responsible capatlism" / "evolved capatlism" / "social enterprise" is and will be a great force for good in the world, a great example is Mahamud Yanus' Grahmeen Bank (sp?) which has helped tens of millions of the worlds poorest get out of poverty and has also become a paragon for corporations who are looking to make a profit but also want to make the world a better place. this is the most poppular example but there are thousands of other examples out there that have been largely ignored by the mass media because their leaders havent won the nobel prize

its my lunch break and ive been ranting too much already, but i may write a thread on Social Enterprise when i have a bit more time (read a tonne of books on teh subject and spend most of
my time nowadays on this site www.socialedge.org

interesting article:
http://www.socialedge.org/discussio...lobal-landscape

Last edited by tathi on Oct-15-2008 at 02:55

quote:

Originally posted by tathi the Fed is a very small part of the documentary bro, coincidentally its the first part, how far did you get through?

When I watch a 'documentary' that tells lies, I am less than enthused to keep watching.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi anyway, "economic slavery = capatalism" doesnt say much about capatalism does it, i guess to be truly free we need be communists and get rid of the money supply like Pol Pot? seriously though i dont understand what your trying to get accross when you agree with zeitgeist by saying capatilism in its current from is slavery and then say its dishonest?

Of course its dishonest. Virtually the entire argument relating to the fed is untrue. What more do you want? The fact that it presents an argument against capitalism = big fucking deal. Get in line.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi i dont agree with you at all when you say rehashing economic slavery is redundant because its been done a thousand times before; the more things like this come out in the open the better, being the number 1 video on google means it has a lot of reach and hopefully like me people will see this and do there own research. and even if people only watch this and parrot it to others thats good because the more awareness we can create on the issue the better because this subject has has remained largely clandestine except in intelletual circles who listen to the likes of Chomsky

So, what youre saying is that its ok to promote ignorance because of the infintesimally small chance that someone might want to follow up with their own research? Well, there's at least half a dozen morons in here that have proven they are incapable of doing that. They repeat the lies and distortions of the movie(s) with little or no understanding about what they're talking about. Is this the kind of knowledge youre promoting?

quote:

Originally posted by tathi it is a fact that capatalism in its current form submits billions of people into economic slavery; the debate is whether the most powerful corporations in the world (being blinded by greed) have done this unwittingly or if it has been and is a culculated and conscious choice made by the worlds richest and most powerful who pull the strings of these corporations. it only takes one CEO to make a huge difference in the world whether it be for good or for evil (as cliche as that sounds)

And yet capitalism has engendered the greatest increase in personal freedom, social mobility and affluence than any system of social and economic stratification.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi if you had watched the second half of Zeitgeist which you will like if you keep an open mind (anyone who likes sci fi and imagining what the world could be like in the future would enjoy it) you would see that it offers alternatives to the current system. now these alternatives are extremely moon eyed and utopian in nature but when you think of how much the world has changed in the last 50 years its intellectually myopic not to wonder 'what if' when we imagine what the world could become in the next 50 years

Ive done my years as a rabid marxist. I see the (radical) alternatives as meaning well but essentially bereft of anything even approaching plausible. Im also not going to waste even more of my time watching a "documentary" that cannot be trusted to at least provide factual information. How can I possibly take anything in the doco seriously when it struggles to get anything right?

quote:

Originally posted by tathi what is terrifying is what the world will become if we do not change our current belief systems and the power structures that rule our societies. this belief that limitless consumerism in a finite world is sustainable is wrong. there is no argument about it. we must change this limited 20th century belief if we wish to continue to live harmoniously with that which sustains us (the environment) every eco system on earth is either irreperably damaged or showing signs of damage, the world is slowly dieing and things must change dramatically in the way we live our lives or we are in store for some horrifying wars over resources in the future

Can't argue with that. But there's no need to tell lies about the central banking system in order to present a compelling argument.

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says the troll who does not watch or read anything.....

quote:

PKC When I watch a 'documentary' that tells lies, I am less than enthused to keep watching.

then i guess there is no point in debating when you have so adamently made up your mind about something

quote:

Originally posted by tathi then i guess there is no point in debating when you have so adamently made up your mind about something

that depends entirely on what you want to debate. im all for a discussion about the pros and cons of modern capitalism. but im not going to entertain the conspiracy lies and distortions from the movie when there are hundreds of authors and researchers who have written far better pieces of work.

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