quote:

Originally posted by arctic I don't have the exact statistic with me, but from memory around 50% of marriages end up in divorce. The 'forever' part isn't working, and to be honest, I can't see it ever working. I don't see why it's so important to preserve the 'institution' of marriage, it's just a human concept, and therefore there's a distinct possibility that it's fundamentally flawed. I think it's time that we took another look at (secular) marriage; I don't think that excluding gays is the right thing to do. I don't think it matters whether they are able to reproduce, gays have been around for a long time, and it isn't exactly a brand new phenomenon. Homosexuality does seem to have something to do with genetics (Feel free to post a credible study that rebukes that if you think I’m wrong). Just because they can't produce doesn’t necessarily make homosexuality 'wrong'. To answer your question about why males can't reproduce with each other. Simple, because they both have pen0rs. By the way Diginut, I’m looking forward to it.

Yes,I know about that statistic. But,Marriage is intended for a lifetime together. The vows state this. I've preformed at many weddings. It's a promise before God.It's not something to be slapping around. Marriage is very important,and very serious.

I don't think that whatever percentage of marriages that end should be thrown aside lightly. I don't think we should add onto the problem either. If you know what I'm saying.

There have also been many marriages that have lasted people,till death do them part.

I know homosexuality has been around a long time, The Bible speaks of it.

But, Most of what you and I have said are our beliefs,and opinions. I know for a fact though that it's not good for your health..It's been proven in science many times.

___________________
~Nessa

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Originally posted by DigiNut Nelly, you really need to learn to use copy and paste instead of posting in the same thread 3 times in a row. It's going to irritate people, even those on your side of the debate. I will cut up arctic's argument in good time... need to take a bit of a debating break.

I will post as much as I like,Thank you. It's easier if I personally post to each person.

___________________
~Nessa

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 But, Most of what you and I have said are our beliefs,and opinions. I know for a fact though that it's not good for your health..It's been proven in science many times.

AHAHAHAH...show us this proof!
Stop spewing idiocy and stop talking to you parents about this.

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by Cyrus King AHAHAHAH...show us this proof! Stop spewing idiocy and stop talking to you parents about this.

AID's, HIV, Need I say more? I can if you want.

CCD statistics show that the average lifespan of a gay man is into his 40's..... a Straight mans average lifespan is into his 70's. That tell you anything? It should. If not,You're completely blind.
I'm not spewing idiocy. So,I don't know what you're complaining about.
But, I can talk to my parents as much,or as little as I like. You can't command me. You are not my authority.

___________________
~Nessa

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Yes,I know about that statistic. But,Marriage is intended for a lifetime together. The vows state this. I've preformed at many weddings. It's a promise before God.It's not something to be slapping around. Marriage is very important,and very serious. I don't think that whatever percentage of marriages that end should be thrown aside lightly. I don't think we should add onto the problem either. If you know what I'm saying. There have also been many marriages that have lasted people,till death do them part.

You are mixing up a civil marriage with a church marriage. Now, nobody is disputing that the church marriage may limit itself to heterosexual couples. As far as the civil marriage goes, as I've stated before, if two people want to get themselves officially listed as married, they should be allowed to do so. But, they should not get any financial benefits for it.

quote:

But, Most of what you and I have said are our beliefs,and opinions. I know for a fact though that it's not good for your health..It's been proven in science many times.

The fact that homosexuals often don't have the same quality of life is in no way connected to their sexual orientation, but rather to the secondary effects. Those effects include social prejudice, discrimination, and the fact that many of them are more promiscuous than straight individuals, and therefore more prone to sexual diseases. But, a homosexual person that has a single partner and is enjoying a tolerant environment has no more health problems than a straight individual does.

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AID's, HIV, Need I say more? I can if you want.

AIDS (not AID's, as S stands for syndrome) is not related to a person's sexual orientation. In the begining phases of the disease spreading, the amount of homosexuals infected with AIDS was very high. This was not, however, because homosexuals are more prone to the disease, but rather because they lived promiscuous lifestyles, with many unprotected sexual partners.

quote:

CCD statistics show that the average lifespan of a gay man is into his 40's..... a Straight mans average lifespan is into his 70's. That tell you anything? It should. If not,You're completely blind.

Again, the two are not related. What was the projected lifespan of an average jew in 1940s? Pretty low, I guess. Does that mean jews are not as healthy as other races? No.

Now, Nellie, we are on the same side here, but come on, your arguments are often really close minded and fallacious, which really forces me to dispute them rather than to argue your (our?) point of view on this specific matter.

___________________
1+1=10

Last edited by DrUg_Tit0 on Jan-11-2004 at 19:54

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 AID's, HIV, Need I say more? I can if you want. CCD statistics show that the average lifespan of a gay man is into his 40's..... a Straight mans average lifespan is into his 70's. That tell you anything? It should. If not,You're completely blind. I'm not spewing idiocy. So,I don't know what you're complaining about. But, I can talk to my parents as much,or as little as I like. You can't command me. You are not my authority.

Please show me this PROOF.... where are the documents, the publications, the research methods, the sampling???????

You are spewing out BULLSHIT

I can comeon here too and say that Staright people have an age span up to 40 years old becuase they are also dying of HIV and AIDS.

Go and do some homework little one.... you obviously dont know what you are saying

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Please show me this PROOF.... where are the documents, the publications, the research methods, the sampling??????? You are spewing out BULLSHIT I can comeon here too and say that Staright people have an age span up to 40 years old becuase they are also dying of HIV and AIDS. Go and do some homework little one.... you obviously dont know what you are saying

I'm not spewing out Boviene excrement. I gave you what you asked for. I told you the CCD statistics.
You already know about AIDS,and HIV. I don't really need to elaborate. By the way,Come and on are seperate. They aren't one word..

The Statistics state that the average lifespan of a STRAIGHT man is into his 70's. You really need to open you eyes and read it.
Yes,I do know hetrosexuals have contracted AIDS,and HIV. But,it all stems from the homosexual lifestyle.If you wish for me to inform you on this. Just say the word.


lol again with the personal attacks. You really must be afraid of losing.:/

___________________
~Nessa

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 AIDS (not AID's, as S stands for syndrome) is not related to a person's sexual orientation. In the begining phases of the disease spreading, the amount of homosexuals infected with AIDS was very high. This was not, however, because homosexuals are more prone to the disease, but rather because they lived promiscuous lifestyles, with many unprotected sexual partners.

AIDS,Yes.Sorry.

quote:

Again, the two are not related. What was the projected lifespan of an average jew in 1940s? Pretty low, I guess. Does that mean jews are not as healthy as other races? No.

No no, You can't compare those two statistics because nobody is cooking homosexuals in ovens.. That's what the Germans did to the Jews in WWII.

quote:

Now, Nellie, we are on the same side here, but come on, your arguments are often really close minded and fallacious, which really forces me to dispute them rather than to argue your (our?) point of view on this specific matter.

We are on the same side? I didn't realize such.
But,I'm not close minded. I assure you. I just have my facts,I'm presenting them,and people are ignoring them.

But,I really have to cut down on my visits.... I'm already really ill, I had to start a new treatment, so I'm going to be in bed even more now.:/ So,I might not come back to this topic for a while.

___________________
~Nessa

*winces

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax *winces

What's wrong?

___________________
~Nessa

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I'm not spewing out Boviene excrement. I gave you what you asked for. I told you the CCD statistics. You already know about AIDS,and HIV. I don't really need to elaborate.

NO, you didnt give me what i asked for... there is no validation.. show me CONCRETE proof of this. You just posting this is useless to me.

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By the way,Come and on are seperate. They aren't one word.. The Statistics state that the average lifespan of a STRAIGHT man is into his 70's. You really need to open you eyes and read it. Yes,I do know hetrosexuals have contracted AIDS,and HIV. But,it all stems from the homosexual lifestyle.If you wish for me to inform you on this. Just say the word. lol again with the personal attacks. You really must be afraid of losing.:/

Are you trying to patronize me by correcting my English???? AHAHA....i was typing fast and forgot to push the space bar between COME and ON...Stop trying to look intelligent, its noticable a mile away.

YOU need to open your eyes and differentiate between an indiscriminating disease and your discrimination of Gay people.

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 What's wrong?

Although I agree with you on stuff about what Marriage ought to be, and on some other issues, they are purely ideological, and in this particular discussion I think it would benefit all of us to speak more on the impact that these things have on society than merely talking about Utopia. It gets kind of redundant when someone says, "well gays shouldnt marry because its wrong" "why" "because it says so in the Bible".

Its called the fallacy of ex cathedra (from the pulpit) and its logically unsupportable. Again, I agree with the Bible, but not everyone considers the Bible to be God's word, or even that God exists.

Like I said, focus more on oberservable effects and probabilities. They make you look less emotionally vested in the subject, and help people focus on what is being said, instead of who is saying it.

Research is a thumbs up.

Cheers