quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo according to Bush's father Bush is one of the finest one on one speakers he's ever heard. in other words when he's talking alone to one or a group of people away from spotlight he's a totaly different orater. when a third party is involved (cameras, critcal audience) he gets uptight.

Bush Sr. also said that he had never worked for the CIA before 1976 - as he was being promoted to Director (despite FBI memo's signed by J. Edgar Hoover stating otherwise.)

It's funny how the three Navy ships used in the Bay of Pigs invasion were aptly named the "Barbara, Houston and Zapata" while the operation itself (the peninsula location as well) was named "Zapata."




ad hominem



It's amazing how clueless most people are.

if your implying that i'm clueless i could just as easily implicate you on your cluelesness on how the world really works, and use your paranoia and penchant for theories against you.

quote:

Originally posted by NYGblue You know sitting through reading all this only one thing came to mind. How are conservatives into Electronic Dance? Especially from Texas. While I think you guys are a bunch of jackasses when it comes to political discussions I would like to meet you just to pick your brain. (don't worry a lot of the liberals aren't much better) I mean when I go to clubs, lounges, and the like I always see someone wearing an anti-bush pin, or something like that. Yet you guys exist. Fascinating... P.S. I don't consider myself a liberal.

If your not a liberal or a conservative (and I understand that the division implies a false dichotomy)...what are you?

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor If your not a liberal or a conservative (and I understand that the division implies a false dichotomy)...what are you?

a tranny?

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor If your not a liberal or a conservative (and I understand that the division implies a false dichotomy)...what are you?

Easy, I am neither. To be a liberal or a conservative would mean that I am part of an ideology. To be part of an ideology would make me an ideologue. That would render me useless because then I would just follow an ideology and not try to disseminate my own truths. So I avoid the label because I don't believe in either school. Why?

Here's why, because were I to label myself "Liberal" I would inherently contradict the fuck out of many things I believe principally in the economic sector. Were I to label myself a "Conservative" I would contradict heinously my socio-political views. I am all for free markets and deregulation (smart deregulation not just tossing it all out), but I also don't believe in war (in most cases, extreme circumstances like Hitler excluded), I am pro-gay rights, and womens right to choose, and have an "i give a fuck about the rest of the world" view.

So in earnest I just choose my views based on individual issues. Many of which are co-related, many of which have nothing to do with eachother whatsoever. Some are pretty "liberal", some are "conservative" according to what people say.

Oh yeah anyone care to DEFINE what makes a Liberal and what makes a Conservative. Man I would love to get a good one because I have yet to hear one.

___________________
You have one life to live... SO DANCE!

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lib·er·tar·i·an ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-târ-n)
n.
One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
One who believes in free will.


you can't hide from labels man. c'mon, they're cool, everyones doin it

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo if your implying that i'm clueless i could just as easily implicate you on your cluelesness on how the world really works, and use your paranoia and penchant for theories against you.

I guess if I had never had a relative that took part in special-ops during WWII (in 1941 - before we were even at war), and who later became a shadow in the then (newly) formed CIA, then I would probably listen to your gibberish.

Oh, and if by paranoia you mean "heightened state of awareness" then yeah, I'm paranoid.

well just what do "the powers that be" have in store for us then if your so damned heightened.

you doesn't even have to be specific man, just illustrate something or a timeframe even

is it good? bad? is mankind screwed or just America?
is war gonna be the status-quo for the next century again or will there be peace?

is it the Bilderbergs? the Freemasons? do they want us dead or just slaves? do they want more money?

you gotta give us something dude, there are people dying all over the world waiting for you to tell us what the fuck you know.

dammit double post...again!

quote:

Originally posted by NYGblue Easy, I am neither. To be a liberal or a conservative would mean that I am part of an ideology. To be part of an ideology would make me an ideologue. That would render me useless because then I would just follow an ideology and not try to disseminate my own truths. So I avoid the label because I don't believe in either school. Why? Here's why, because were I to label myself "Liberal" I would inherently contradict the fuck out of many things I believe principally in the economic sector. Were I to label myself a "Conservative" I would contradict heinously my socio-political views. I am all for free markets and deregulation (smart deregulation not just tossing it all out), but I also don't believe in war (in most cases, extreme circumstances like Hitler excluded), I am pro-gay rights, and womens right to choose, and have an "i give a fuck about the rest of the world" view. So in earnest I just choose my views based on individual issues. Many of which are co-related, many of which have nothing to do with eachother whatsoever. Some are pretty "liberal", some are "conservative" according to what people say. Oh yeah anyone care to DEFINE what makes a Liberal and what makes a Conservative. Man I would love to get a good one because I have yet to hear one.

Interesting. I agree that trying to pigeon hole your beliefs under one specific label is hard to do, but I also agree that you can't escape the fact that one way or another, you subscribe to a particular ideology.

You are making false assumptions that being a conservative means that you are "pro-war." Just as you are making a false assumption that all conservatives are "anti-gay rights" or "anti-choice."

The reason I consider myself a conservative (although I do hate the label myself) is because I believe in that individual freedom is more important than the "collective." That only through the preservation of individual rights and freedoms and the pursuit of happiness and self betterment will the greatest benefit for mankind be attained.

How does this ideal translate to the Iraq debate? Our freedom and individual rights are threatened and under attack by the virulent ideologies of this world such as radical islamism (just as it was threatened by communism, nazism, and fascism in the past). War is not good, nobody likes war, or would even consider themselves "pro-war." But sometimes things are worth fighting for.

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor Interesting. I agree that trying to pigeon hole your beliefs under one specific label is hard to do, but I also agree that you can't escape the fact that one way or another, you subscribe to a particular ideology. You are making false assumptions that being a conservative means that you are "pro-war." Just as you are making a false assumption that all conservatives are "anti-gay rights" or "anti-choice." The reason I consider myself a conservative (although I do hate the label myself) is because I believe in that individual freedom is more important than the "collective." That only through the preservation of individual rights and freedoms and the pursuit of happiness and self betterment will the greatest benefit for mankind be attained. How does this ideal translate to the Iraq debate? Our freedom and individual rights are threatened and under attack by the virulent ideologies of this world such as radical islamism (just as it was threatened by communism, nazism, and fascism in the past). War is not good, nobody likes war, or would even consider themselves "pro-war." But sometimes things are worth fighting for.

Sure I suppose I am left leaning. I use to be what many consider a conservative. But views change.

I am also aware of the fact that specific issues don't qualify someone as a conservative neccesarily. But being pro-war is a conservative stance as is anti-gay beliefs.

I would also like to point out that your definition of conservative is more liberatarian. I know you probably would rather shoot yourself than be nailed with that label. But its a fact.

I ain't even going to touch the Iraq debate and its correlation to freedom. That will degrade this whole thread into more bullshit.

___________________
You have one life to live... SO DANCE!

www.protonradio.com <--- A Higher Experience.