quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Jesus how stupid can the American's be. I'm a bit miffed really. This made me feel a bit better though: George Bush and Dick Cheney are enjoying a celebration lunch at a fancy Washington restaurant. Their waitress approaches their table to take their order; she is young and very attractive. She asks Cheney what he wants, and he replies, "I'll have the heart-healthy salad.” "Very good, sir," she replies, and turning to Bush she asks, "And what do you want, Mr. President?" Bush answers, "How about a quickie?" Taken a back, the waitress slaps him and says, "I'm shocked and disappointed in you. I thought you were committed to high principles and morality. I'm sorry I voted for you." With that, the waitress departed in a huff. Cheney leans over to Bush, and says, “Mr. President, I believe that's pronounced ‘quiche’

You stole that off The Sketch Show, you bastard!

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Originally posted by Orbax I think youll find that most people dont identify with Texan values. You will, however, find that people identify with the feeling that our country is losing the core values that made America. God, family, country. All are mocked and spurned by the new age/new wave liberals who think that all the things that made our country get to where we are now (or were 40 years ago before they started coming out of the wood work) are outdated. Funny, they lasted several hundred years and were fine until shitheads started criticizing stuff. Funny how that works. So yeah, many Americans feel alienated from what we've always seen our national image to be. We all feel like we are part of a decaying empire, something rotting from the core out. So we chose a man who seems to stand for many of the things that seem so outdated these days. Fighting back, holding people accountable for their actions, and holding nations and people to a moral and ethical code. For the moral relativists who wonder "who is America to say that?!" my answer: "We are America, the most diverse union on Earth" We have values and codes from around the world, and it seems to turn out pretty universal, in the end. So much for relativism. Apparently freedom breeds a certain type of morality. So to all the people wondering what the hell just happened: You were misled by a liberal media into thinking that Americans aren't sick of taking shit and watching their country get trashed as it heads down the road of immorality and decay. Apparently Fox News WAS the right source. Sucks to have been reading BBC and Al Jiz for your news on American politics....

Good post. I live in Texas (and am Chinese), and I don't think Bush is exactly the best person, but in my opnion, he's much better than Kerry. My moral standpoints played a part in my preference of Bush over Kerry, and at the same time, I am pretty conservative economically and moderately socially. America has been successful for at least the past half of a century and there is no need to suddenly plunge into "unknown territory" thinking it will be a certain change for the better.

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Originally posted by Orbax holding people accountable for their actions

the rest of your post wasn't bad, I really can't agree with this part of your post.

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occrider - an object you stick into a poon.

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Originally posted by Orbax Telling someone not to take offense and then calling them an inflammatory asshole isnt the way to not get people offended. Not that I am. The person who I think should be in office is, and people who continue to attack dont really bug me any more. It turned out pretty much like I thought it would. And no, thats not a joke. Ive never found any of our presidents, even the screw-ups, to be "funny". Its deadly serious for males between 18 and 25. edit: Oh, youre canadian. Thats practically American...

lol, it actually was a real question btw. it sounded so right wing i thought you were being sarcastic. apparently i was wrong..

/rant
and i guess you're right m8, canadian could be considered "practically american", only we're democratic, and we are allowed to retain our basic human rights, oh yea and we a healthcare system, and we're not called the cultural "melting pot" (did i hear you say diversity), and we realized ages ago that religion and the church should be separate from politics and the leadership of a nation, and we don't claim to be supporters of free trade and then try to fuck our allies sideways, and so on and so forth.
/end rant

Changing tone:
Im sorry if i offended you, your political opinions are just as valid as any other, and while i dont agree with them i can still have a level of respect for them, and yes to a certain degree you're right in believing we have no right to belittle your political system and voting choice, however, we're landlocked and have an interdependent economies, so when (who i percieve) to be an idiot is re-elected to lead your nation, i feel compelled to give my viewpoint, and in this case, also defend an insult against my country.

Anyways, i propose we:

and discuss this is a more peaceful way with as little hostility as possible (to which i escalated before and am sorry).

(and yes, those are the twats from the cliparts in ms word...)

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cheers

people are choosing their "moral standpoints" to be the model for the rest of the country.

the problem is that kerry's supporters' moral standpoints are "you are allowed to have any standpoints you wish" and bush's supporters' standpoints are "you are allowed to have only the standpoints we tell you are right, such as anti-gay marriage laws and anti-abortion laws because we don't like them, so we won't give you a choice"


what happened to voting for economy and foreign policy?

do people REALLY believe that gay marriages and free abortions will tear this country apart?

yes, only if they're prohibited.

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Originally posted by sym So forward thinking is bad, and we should all stick to the thoughts and ideals of our forefathers?

Wasnt really saying that. We just have a generation out right now that thinks tradition, of any kind, is for old people and retards. The labels of "forward thinking" or "modern" or "realistic" help justify the thought.

In reality, I think that re-inventing the ethical and moral wheel every time you are faced with a decision is slowing down the progress of society today.

The fact that 12 year olds dress as sluts and whores for Halloween instead of princesses shows a depressingly jaded world, one that has lost idealism and forgotten childhood and has "progressed" to the ranks of adults.

We are living in a time where kids dont get to be kids, and neither do adults. In Plato's Republic there is a great line. It isnt old age that weighs so heavily on people, its their lives.

Tell me what is 'forward' about 85% of middle schoolers saying that "Oral sex isnt sex".

I think that throwing away the shackles of tradition and precedence have just left us adrift in an ocean of darkness. Hopefully it wont be too late to go pick up the old fart you threw overboard before realizing he was the only one who could navigate.

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Originally posted by Orbax The fact that 12 year olds dress as sluts and whores for Halloween instead of princesses shows a depressingly jaded world, one that has lost idealism and forgotten childhood and has "progressed" to the ranks of adults.

what do you expect from the MTV generation? when parents are too busy making careers nowadays, kids are being forced to entertain themselves with video games and media instead of being read interesting books, told stories, or sung songs like me and kids of my generation were.

so then they start picking up that looking the way girls look on MTV is the "cool" thing and talking like 'artists' in clips do is the way to talk.

there are just too many things that are "popular" to do nowadays, including saying that there are too many things that are "popular" to do nowadays

but this is a topic for a whole different thread.

it's all bush's fault

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Originally posted by d0uble h3lix lol, it actually was a real question btw. it sounded so right wing i thought you were being sarcastic. apparently i was wrong.. /

I understand Canadians do have a particular interest, and rightly so, in American elections. It is kind of difficult to understand the undercurrents of nationalism that we have if you havent lived here.

As far as Bush being an idiot...I mean you gotta admit he is smart in some way. If nothing else he was intelligent to get to know the right people to get him into office. First as a Governor, and then as the President. If he isn't brilliant at engineering and building dams, or military strategy and leading out troops, he is at least a cunning humanist. He understands motives and drives and knows how to utilize them. Thats what presidents do. He has generals to fight his wars, the judicial system and legislative branch to make and interpret law, and a treasury and people like Greenspan (who I hate) to run the economy and make suggestions.

He has a an idea of where America should go. Thats it. If you talk to most CEOs (ive met a lot) and presidents of companies you will find it is HARD to say exactly what they do. My father has been a president or CEO or founder of 5 or 6 companies. I still dont quite understand what he does other than say "Lets dominate the high-tech consulting field specializing in aeronautics and helpdesk applications"

Then the salesmen go out and sell and the developers and engineers acuate it.

GW isnt the guy out there shooting guns or teaching kids how to read.

So, just realize exactly what it means to be president/ Commander and Chief. Its having a vision... a dream. Too see a United America again, one with citizens proud of their government, their systems, their businesses, is all I want.

I want to see kids wearing slacks to church again instead of shorts and tee-shirts (because thats what their parents wear). I want to want to go to church again because its hard to find one that isnt full of whiny zealots playing emo. I want there to be moderate and independant thinkers again.

Will George W take us there? Hell no. I dont expect him to at all. I expect him to be the president who took a hell off a swipe at cleaning up the Middle East. Iraq...probably wont be the end. Lets be realistic. Hopefully he will communicate his vision to the people better in the future, and hopefully trust us enough to be able to decide on whats right for the country.

I want to be able to go to Europe again and this time not punch ******s in the face for getting on my case for my personal president that I wasnt old enough to vote for last time I went. I want America and its citizens to be respected as a top notch group of folks who fight the good fight again...and again...and again, until we aren't needed in that area any more.

Personally, I didnt see Kerry doing anything other than nothing along those lines. Hed finish up in Iraq, quietly take us out and give us 2-6 years of tranquility. We might get attacked again, our embassies may be bombed, but the days of war mongering would be over. America would go back to sleep. Then we would stagnate. The aforemenionted "forward thinkers" would gain more and more power and when the time came to do something, there would be nothing that could be done. We would be a bunch of snivelling cowards, itching to elect Hillary Clinton and "FOUR MORE YEARS!!" of quiet stagnation.

oh, right, it's pointless to quote orbax. for one, he's got me on ignore, second, it's pointless to quote orbax.

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quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Wasnt really saying that. We just have a generation out right now that thinks tradition, of any kind, is for old people and retards. The labels of "forward thinking" or "modern" or "realistic" help justify the thought. In reality, I think that re-inventing the ethical and moral wheel every time you are faced with a decision is slowing down the progress of society today. The fact that 12 year olds dress as sluts and whores for Halloween instead of princesses shows a depressingly jaded world, one that has lost idealism and forgotten childhood and has "progressed" to the ranks of adults. We are living in a time where kids dont get to be kids, and neither do adults. In Plato's Republic there is a great line. It isnt old age that weighs so heavily on people, its their lives. Tell me what is 'forward' about 85% of middle schoolers saying that "Oral sex isnt sex". I think that throwing away the shackles of tradition and precedence have just left us adrift in an ocean of darkness. Hopefully it wont be too late to go pick up the old fart you threw overboard before realizing he was the only one who could navigate.

I think that what you say is in a way valid, and I certainly agree with holding on to some traditions and ideals from the past. However, I dont agree with what your saying about "re-inventing the wheel" slowing down the progress the society.

We live in a time where there are so many issues out there in our culture that are controversial, that I don't believe there is any other way except to "re-invent this wheel". Things are different than they were 30 years ago, and we really do need a leader to address this.

I think what you are saying about children and their childhoods definitely is something to be thought about. I agree with you that there is something wrong with little girls dressing like sluts, and middle schoolers not consider oral sex to be sex, but what does this say about our society in general? If little kids are showing these signs what does it say about the parents of this generation and the society that these children grow up in?

However, I don't think the solution to this problem is to adhere to ideas of old, and take the conservative way out by, for example, telling these children that the only safe sex is no sex. Perhaps the reason these children are the way they are is because people are telling them not to do things, and of course, kids being kids, they think "hey lets do what were not supposed to."

You brought up some interesting points, but I don't think that we're going to mend society by trying to look to the past for a solution.

I don't believe Orbax was saying we need to "adhere" to the past to effectively progress in the future. It just seems as though we've definitely moved far away from who we used to identify ourselves as - in terms of National identity. America was founded through ideals - strong, independent, people can take care of themselves in a nation where the Government doesn't intervene with people's lives, but is there to care for the people when the need arises. That's why the Government started off much smaller - people could just take care of themselves. True, the world and our society has changed much over these years, and there are certain guidelines we can no longer follow in the traditional manner, but the ideals that this nation were founded on are just universal morals and statutes for decency towards citizens. We can no longer live in the past anymore, but to merely ignore it because it's old is simply retarded - there are fundamentals in this world, whether you want to admit it or not, and to just abandon those for the sake of progression would be a weakness.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.