quote:

Originally posted by DJSentinel Who fucking cares if their proper musicians?

lol, i dont care, but thats why the music isn't good.

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Can our scene even support proper trance musicians anymore? Maybe the reason we don't have genuine talent and instead all these amateurs is that something in the trance world changed which makes it no longer capable of sustaining the more elite talents out there.

I have issues with money being used as a tool for discrimination, but I will conceed the people who invest in these expensive studios and years of training tend to make better sounds, simply because they put more time/effort/resources into their work than the automagic softwarez out there, which isn't to say that a person of more limited means can't also make worthy music, they just have to work harder to accomplish that.

Im thinking that our little music niche is working much in the same way a dancefloor does, nobody gets into the music when the floor is empty. We have a chicken and the egg issue to deal with before trance can get good again, we need hype to attract talented musicians, we need talented musicians to generate hype, much in the same way you need a crowd to get people to dance. The way DJ's do it, is they just keep trying different shit until people get moving on the floor, then they stick to what works for that crowd. I don't notice people trying alot of different stuff in trance, what I notice is alot of people doing the same thing, which leads me to beleive that they are in the "sticking to what works" phase, and that we are aleinated because that stuff is not working for us. Maybe the dancefloors aren't empty, maybe the crowd is enjoying it and are completely oblivious to the problems that we are facing. Music fans are quite fickle, trends leave everyone behind eventually, maybe we should just accept that the crowd is no longer interested in trance and move on with our lives. I'm thinking that the 1999 era had such great music because it had such a great audience, it was a cycle which fed on itelf and expanded until the fickle trends left it all behind. Those of us who are not so fickle and trendy kinda stuck to trance thinking there was something special about it, but maybe there isn't, maybe it is the same as any other social scene, vulnerable to fluctuating trends and only in style temporarily.

I've tried to fit in with the new sound of trance, but other than the few experimental tracks I have done, I cannnot be motivated by the standard and sound of current releases.
It has stagnated. Everyone is trying to be too intelligant to the point that they lose track of what the music is really about. The people in the clubs.
It seems that producers/DJ's are either aiming for the charts or for acclaim from the Muso's rather than the scenes core audience.

As far as the dance/electrnic scene goes at the moment. Drum n Bass seems to me, to be be the most exciting.
Pendulum, High Contrast, Sub Focus, Zinc n Jenna G, Ed Rush & Optical - all seem to be part of a scene that sounds more exciting, more fresh, more energetic and more original than trance does at the moment.

A sad but true fact (IMO of course)

Regards,

Brendan

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Well, first off no one said anything ever in this entire thread about discouraging amateurs from producing music. It doesn't take much to tell that's not a viable solution. The problem is, a few years ago you didn't hear their stuff or see it everywhere until they were good enough and until their tracks were good enough. You also didn't hear about a lot of DJs until they were good enough (ie: radio shows, mix downloads). Nowadays, it's not uncommon to know someone who has a track out, or has a radio show, or to hear a radio show mixed by someone who's never played a real paying dj gig in their life. Lets all say it together now O-V-E-R-S-A-T-U-R-A-T-I-O-N.

Not oversaturated with awesome material, just hearing a bit too much about people who need more time to become better at what they do and develop real talent or originality. So what do you do when everything's thrown into the same pool? We already know it's not ethical to bring down the amateurs, so the only other choice is figuring how to better support the great stuff and the pros who have stood the test of time refining their talents through experience.. along with the real record labels.. yes the ones that weren't just started by people who couldn't find someone else to release their stuff! Like it or not, it's either this, or accept the consequences of having one massive pool where you better be an expert with all the patience in the world to be able to find enough of the great stuff before you move on.


Bandwagoners ride the trends or what's in style.

As for someone like me who's been DJing actively in the scene for 11 years and who listens to & appreciates a broader range of music than 99.9% of those on this board, I distance myself not because I've forgot how to appreciate something or because it's not in style.
I distance myself for a bloody simple reason. The quality of the productions has turned to boring shite that goes nowhere big for me.
I don't like to spend half an hour going through a bunch of records I'd prefer never to hear again. And if the best of them is something that is just decent, well that's not what I'm looking for. I am not out to find a decent record, I'm out to find something great. Something that gets me excited and that I want to hear again and again. Something I can't wait to play out. Not something that is just okay that I will hardly want to listen to still a few weeks later. So when I'm faced with the choice of playing half assed tracks, or shifting to a genre that seems somewhat on fire with the level of exciting productions (breaks/prog/electro) then that's what I do. There are still SOME great (dancefloor friendly) trance tracks out there but I just don't have time to find them and the fanbase for trance has dwindled because those people themselves don't find/hear enough exciting great tracks.

It's pretty simple math really I don't know how some people can miss it.

If you had say, 1 amazing track in a stack of 15 tracks.... compared to 1 amazing track hiding somewhere in a stack of 50 tracks, what do you think is going to happen here?
There will be a lot less of a chance that people/djs are likely to find it. There will be plenty that will get too bored of looking through it all after hearing enough crappy tracks, there will also be plenty of people to just buy some half assed track because they got tired of looking and just choose the one that sounds at least decent enough to play.

I could sit in an alley eating cardboard for 5 days and then go eat a 7-11 burger and it would taste like prime fucking rib. This doesn't mean that 7-11 Burgers are gourmet cuisine though, it just means that after eating enough cardboard I'd jump at the chance to get take a 7-11 burger and be on my way.

By the way, earlier in this thread I mentioned about the lack of support for my the one main trance night here in Vancouver which was run by my good friends. Well I've been informed since, that the night is now gone. Another casualty of the damage the trance scene has been taking. I'm sure next time Armin's in town it will be packed though. But then, what's the reason it will even be packed? Packed from the hype and excitement around trance music? Or packed from the hype & excitement fo seeing a top 10 DJ put on by a promoter who can pull off a successful show with nearly any big name DJ?

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Last edited by DJ NEMESIS on Jul-12-2006 at 03:58

Everytime I hear a new ASOT, I believe trance is the most powerful genre out there, that only gets better year by year. There's still future classics being put out. Red Woods by DJ Governer could have been put out in the late mellennium, and we would be talking about it today.

I still think trance from 1990-1996 sounds better than anything today.

Why would crappy bedroom producers, digital labels etc only be affecting trance. Why aren't we seeing oversaturation in other EDM genres. Most of us tend to agree that trance isn't the most popular genre it used to be. If this is the case then surely there are more bedroom producers making house/techno than trance, more digital labels pushing these other genres so why is it only trance that is suffereng from this..???

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Why would crappy bedroom producers, digital labels etc only be affecting trance.

Yes, exactly.

This



is what kills importance of the musical element and creativity in trance as we know it.

Tiesto playing at Disneyland, during the Olympic Games ceremony, remixing Pirates of The Carribean in the awful way, making huge spectacular solo "concerts" etc.

I´m not bashing Tiesto, but he´s a symbol of emptiness of today´s trance. He stands in the front line with two strong weapons in his hands - marketing & hype, makes himself a pop idol and puts the musical substance behind.

We can´t be surprised that the creativity in the music production stagnates, because the so-called trance elites of the past went pop.

If I had too choose one future hero and saviour, I would probably say Sander van Doorn (he´s not 100% trance but what the heck, I don´t think 100% trance can save it). But yeah, it´s only me.

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quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 Im thinking that our little music niche is working much in the same way a dancefloor does, nobody gets into the music when the floor is empty. We have a chicken and the egg issue to deal with before trance can get good again, we need hype to attract talented musicians, we need talented musicians to generate hype, much in the same way you need a crowd to get people to dance.

if nobody goes to the dancefloor when it's empty, than it stays empty: this is not the case.
and we don't need hype to attract talented musicians... the musicians attracted by hype are not the kind of musicians we're looking for in the first place, they're the kind that overaturates the market as it is. if anything, we need less hype.

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Ehm guys... please look beyond your own backyard
In eastern europe trance parties are BOOMING, attracting big crowds, the asot 250 party in Holland filled the club at 9 o clock already , in Belgium id&t has an uber strong trance line up for tomorrowland this year (an event which attracts thousands of people) and the market in Asia is slowly opening up as well...
Cd's like in search of sunrise (you can say about it what you want but it isn't filled with commercial dance) are selling amazingly well, even with todays mp3 sharing problems...

In short, please stfu, trance is still going strong, maybe not in the usa, but be honest, it never was really big over there compared to europe. ( and still I'm reading a lot of reports about amazing trance parties in the usa so I guess some people just don't want to see the positive things still happening )

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quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews Yes, exactly. This is what kills importance of the musical element and creativity in trance as we know it. Tiesto playing at Disneyland, during the Olympic Games ceremony, remixing Pirates of The Carribean in the awful way, making huge spectacular solo "concerts" etc. I´m not bashing Tiesto, but he´s a symbol of emptiness of today´s trance. He stands in the front line with two strong weapons in his hands - marketing & hype, makes himself a pop idol and puts the musical substance behind. We can´t be surprised that the creativity in the music production stagnates, because the so-called trance elites of the past went pop. If I had too choose one future hero and saviour, I would probably say Sander van Doorn (he´s not 100% trance but what the heck, I don´t think 100% trance can save it). But yeah, it´s only me.

Not convinced by this response. Not saying your wrong but the way a lot of people on here have been bashing crappy bedroom productions and digital labels for signing these productions, I still don't see why this is only a problem in trance...

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com