quote:

Originally posted by celestial thug if you understand that so is government, and most religion, then what exactly is the problem? I understand that we should fight evil as defined as causing harm to other people, obviously, but we should do so out in the open. They are deceptive and hide in the woodworks, so now im asking...what makes anon different in this regard?

Because........ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

read it.. it's serious shit. they aren;t hiding as a joke.

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quote:

The Church Of Scientology is being the real coward in all of this, by not being honest about its practices, by keeping its doctrine private and by always choosing to attack critics with "Fair Game" tactics and legalese rather than defend their points of view.

something they have in common with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry
(they have changed attitude as of late tho, ill give them that)

we will have to agree to disagree, because for every post you make, more questions arise on the validity on the claims compared to the situation of "civilisation" as it is atm. scientology is such a small player when it comes to organised evil that i think there are places where the same efford would -hopefully- bring about more fruitfull results. But thank you for participating in the debate with me, i appreciate it.

edit:
ill give you my own story, i came from a very radical strain of Islam, but i managed to get my mind back not because of the pressure from critics, on the contrary as that only strengthens the held belief/dillusion as the counter pressure to what you belive is taken as confimration of the teaching/organisations validity. Afterall, the cult mind understand that its particular cult has THE TRUTH (and nothing but it), and understand they arent very many in their cult, so obviously there is a lot of people out there who are flat out wrong about...well everything. So if they (non cultists) form a protest group, thats just ironclad proof against them.

If this is a project to help the cult victims still in the cult, i belive this project will have zero no success, and there is that old saying: "any publicity is good publicity", so its a defacto win/win situation for the cult itself, it is just too stupid to realise it.

Last edited by celestial thug on Mar-13-2008 at 00:28

quote:

Originally posted by celestial thug we will have to agree to disagree, because for every post you make, more questions arise on the validity on the claims compared to the situation of "civilisation" as it is atm. scientology is such a small player when it comes to organised evil that i think there are places where the same efford would -hopefully- bring about more fruitfull results. But thank you for participating in the debate with me, i appreciate it.

I guess we will have to agree that our viewpoints differ when it comes to this. I believe that any positive change, no matter how small, is good change. While I also think there are 'bigger fish to fry' in this world, the fact that Anon is doing something about an entity that they can handle (ie with a public awareness campaign) is commendable.

I enjoyed this discussion and having the opportunity to discuss our points without it turning into a flame-fest.

quote:

edit: ill give you my own story, i came from a very radical strain of Islam, but i managed to get my mind back not because of the pressure from critics, on the contrary as that only strengthens the held belief/dillusion as the counter pressure to what you belive is taken as confimration of the teaching/organisations validity. Afterall, the cult mind understand that its particular cult has THE TRUTH (and nothing but it), and understand they arent very many in their cult, so obviously there is a lot of people out there who are flat out wrong about...well everything. So if they (non cultists) form a protest group, thats just ironclad proof against them.

Thank you for your story. I have seen reports and testimonies from ex-Scientologists that their group uses the same methods to keep their members 'in'. To them L.Ron Hubbard was 'source', and that his 'tech', or teachings, was perfect. It's sad that this kind of indoctrinization is still happening to people today...

quote:

If this is a project to help the cult victims still in the cult, i belive this project will have zero no success, and there is that old saying: "any publicity is good publicity", so its a defacto win/win situation for the cult itself, it is just too stupid to realise it.

Hopefully some of the people inside will come out and talk to their families again. That is the purpose of the April events, called "Operation Reconnect". If they can get one member to be reunited with his/her family then IMO it is worth the effort. There was a quote somewhere about "bad things happen if good men let them happen"...

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you're right, a little good is better than no good, I agree -obviously- when put like that, but reserve my scepticism against anonymous groups by and large

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing" - attributed to E.Burke, and it is a well chosen quote.

Fuck the "Church" of Scientology. They make a mockery of science by using it in their name. Assholes..

L. Ron Hubbard and starting a religion for money
While the often-cited rumor that Hubbard made a bar bet with Robert A. Heinlein that he could start a cult is likely an embellishment, many witnesses have reported Hubbard making statements in their presence that starting a religion would be a good way to make money.

Editor Sam Merwin, for example, recalled a meeting: "I always knew he was exceedingly anxious to hit big money—he used to say he thought the best way to do it would be to start a cult." (December 1946)[58] Writer and publisher Lloyd Arthur Eshbach reported Hubbard saying "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is." Writer Theodore Sturgeon reported that Hubbard made a similar statement at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society. Likewise, writer Sam Moskowitz reported in an affidavit that during a Eastern Science Fiction Association meeting on November 11, 1948, Hubbard had said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."[59] Milton A. Rothman also reported to his son Tony Rothman that he heard Hubbard make exactly that claim at a science fiction convention.[citation needed] In 1998, an A&E documentary titled "Inside Scientology" shows Lyle Stuart reporting that Hubbard stated repeatedly that to make money, "you start a religion."[60]

According to The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, ed. Brian Ash, Harmony Books, 1977:

" . . .[Hubbard] began making statements to the effect that any writer who really wished to make money should stop writing and develop [a] religion, or devise a new psychiatric method. Harlan Ellison's version (Time Out, UK, No 332) is that Hubbard is reputed to have told [John W.] Campbell, "I'm going to invent a religion that's going to make me a fortune. I'm tired of writing for a penny a word." Sam Moskowitz, a chronicler of science fiction, has reported that he himself heard Hubbard make a similar statement, but there is no first-hand evidence."
The following letter, written by L. Ron Hubbard, was discovered by the FBI during its raid on Scientology headquarters. The letter shows Hubbard turned Scientology into a "religion" for financial reasons:

(1953)

DEAR HELEN

10 APRIL

RE CLINIC, HAS
The arrangements that have been made seem a good temporary measure. On a longer look, however, something more equitable will have to be organized. I am not quite sure what we would call the place - probably not a clinic - but I am sure that it ought to be a company, independent of the HAS [the Hubbard Association of Scientologists] but fed by the HAS. We don't want a clinic. We want one in operation but not in name. Perhaps we could call it a Spiritual Guidance Center. Think up its name, will you. And we could put in nice desks and our boys in neat blue with diplomas on the walls and 1. knock psychotherapy into history and 2. make enough money to shine up my operating scope and 3. keep the HAS solvent. It is a problem of practical business. I await your reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion, we couldn't get worse public opinion than we have had or have less customers with what we've got to sell. A religious charter would be necessary in Pennsylvania or NJ to make it stick. But I sure could make it stick. We're treating the present time beingness, psychotherapy treats the past and the brain. And brother, that's religion, not mental science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy

In a cor summary how is the war actually going?

quote:

Originally posted by saluyamo In a cor summary how is the war actually going?

tl;dr: February 10th had a successful demonstration, March 15th should be even better:

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John Travolta considering leaving the Church of Scientology six months after the sudden death of his son. Blames church for son's death.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25840319-2,00.html

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i want to know how the war is going.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Fuck the "Church" of Scientology. They make a mockery of science by using it in their name. Assholes..

i never understood why they used "science" as the core for the name of their stupid religion.