Round and round the argument goes.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Round and round the argument goes.

This is indeed weird since there is evidence about which side is correct and which is not and we are still debating it.

I just don't think you're even trying to understand the mindset of a culture so afraid of being controlled by tyrrany that they would not ratify the constitution without amendments specifically added to safeguard the rights of the people from that very same government. One of those amendments being the right to bear arms among other things. Seriously losing a hundredth of a percent isn't shit when you realize that most people die from heart disease, cancer, alcoholism etc...

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Round and round the argument goes.

...and both sides are getting sore heads and cracked walls.

However, I think you should answer my questions because I've taken a different tack and am not of the opinion that a pro-gun stance automatically makes one an idiot.

In fact, if I lived in Compton and had no way to leave, I'd buy as many fucking guns as I could get my hands on and stash them in every room in the house, but the point us non-Americans are trying to make is that rather than allowing more guns into the system, you should look at fixing the social and economic problems that cause your citizens to want them in the first place.

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Originally posted by PETRAN This is indeed weird since there is evidence about which side is correct and which is not and we are still debating it.

Ha, I didn't even think of that.

The anti-gun people have provided masses of statistics and have had nothing in return.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog However, I think you should answer my questions because I've taken a different tack and am not of the opinion that a pro-gun stance automatically makes one an idiot.

I already did. Check the end of the fourth page, if you are on the 40 posts per page setting.

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In fact, if I lived in Compton and had no way to leave, I'd buy as many fucking guns as I could get my hands on and stash them in every room in the house, but the point us non-Americans are trying to make is that rather than allowing more guns into the system, you should look at fixing the social and economic problems that cause your citizens to want them.

This is not a dichotomy, though. We can try to fix social and economic problems that cause violence while still allowing the manufacture and possession of guns.

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Originally posted by PETRAN This is indeed weird since there is evidence about which side is correct and which is not and we are still debating it.

I already went over this. Yes, guns cause lots of death. Yes, if guns were banned and all somehow gathered up in the U.S., then it would reduce deaths from guns, although whether it would reduce the homicide rate overall is fairly controversial. The pro-gun folks already understand all that.

The debate is really about values, and what people are willing to accept in their society, which is why it was doomed to permanent disagreement from the start and is ultimately kind of useless and beginning to wear on my patience.

Those statistics are seriously weak. Oh noes .009% of people die from guns instead of .003%!

And what i'm still trying to explain to you is due to our history and culture we aren't going to ban guns. There would need to be an amendment ratified by most of the states which is almost impossible to do even for very popular ideas which gun control is not.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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quote:

Originally posted by Zild I just don't think you're even trying to understand the mindset of a culture so afraid of being controlled by tyrrany that they would not ratify the constitution without amendments specifically added to safeguard the rights of the people from that very same government. One of those amendments being the right to bear arms among other things. Seriously losing a hundredth of a percent isn't shit when you realize that most people die from heart disease, cancer, alcoholism etc...

Man your arguments kill me. The cause of death is irrelevant to the current discussion.


"Losing 30% of the population to heart-disease is bad

So losing 25% to guns is better or not that serious"


(!!!)

Change that figure to .01 percent and you're getting close.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I already went over this. Yes, guns cause lots of death. Yes, if guns were banned and all somehow gathered up in the U.S., then it would reduce deaths from guns, although whether it would reduce the homicide rate overall is fairly controversial. The pro-gun folks already understand all that. The debate is really about values, and what people are willing to accept in their society, which is why it was doomed to permanent disagreement from the start and is ultimately kind of useless and beginning to wear on my patience.

I just read over the answers to my 7 questions, which helped me understand your position immensely.

No, I do not think this is a debate of values, because you and I feel very much the same way - we both live in safe areas where we feel secure and would want to own firearms of our own if we lived in a bad area.

Where we differ is not on values - it's on why those unsafe areas are so much so, which causes us to believe in different solutions for dealing with them.

I agree with you in that this topic is now pointless, draining and not worth continuing, but on a final note: how can you possibly say that if all guns were removed from the US it's debatable whether the homicide rate would improve?

Data from similar countries has shown this to be true, and common sense tells you that a gun can kill 10 people in 10 seconds, whereas a knife or any other non-ranged weapon cannot.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild And what i'm still trying to explain to you is due to our history and culture we aren't going to ban guns. There would need to be an amendment ratified by most of the states which is almost impossible to do even for very popular ideas which gun control is not.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you reverse the constitution; the argument is theoretical and you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't want to change, not that you can't.

Certainly licensing could be tightened, laws introduced regarding lockups etc...