quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Black men and women who worked in the cotton field also had "utopian" ideas about self determination and freedom. I'm glad they stuck to their "utopian" ideals .

They wanted their rights. That's different from wanting a "debt-free society". Debt has been around ever since one man lended a goat to his neighbor for milk. It'll always be around. It's always needed.

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quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X The Federal Reserve Is Collapsing... www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Q-XwNHpGc

Awesome, a website with something to sell. That's more like an infomercial than anything else. Is it any wonder why they would tell you the currency is collapsing, the Fed is collapsing, run to gold and silver!!! Become a member of our site!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Awesome, a website with something to sell. That's more like an infomercial than anything else. Is it any wonder why they would tell you the currency is collapsing, the Fed is collapsing, run to gold and silver!!! Become a member of our site!!!

Quit being such a fraud. It's quite telling that you zoom in on anything other than what Congressman Ron Paul expounds upon in that video.

You're probably under orders not to engage in conversation about the actual facts themselves so you apparently have to always find some unrelated issue in which to try and discredit the messenger with.

No shit, they are using every excuse in the book to stay away from the subject.

If you post a video of a legitimate person/documentary they will complain it's on youtube so it cannot be taken seriously.

Trolls will be trolls.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Quit being such a fraud. It's quite telling that you zoom in on anything other than what Congressman Ron Paul expounds upon in that video. You're probably under orders not to engage in conversation about the actual facts themselves so you apparently have to always find some unrelated issue in which to try and discredit the messenger with.

Quit plagiarizing videos and articles and try arguing from yourself? Ron Paul is being interviewed by a business that sells gold and silver, and obviously has a profit motive in getting essentially, what looks to be an endorsement by Ron Paul. Seems to me to be a conflict of interest. But I digress.

If you want to talk about the gold standard or the Federal Reserve System, by all means, let's do it. None of you have responded to any of my arguments. I dunno if you two are just propagandists for the radical libertarian front, or just wimps, but I'll post my arguments again, and hopefully, you two plagiarizers won't pussy out again.

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quote:

Originally posted by culorut How the Fed Harms the Public Interest

Oh great, you never fail to use other people's work as your argument. In academia, we call it plagiarism. I'll answer it nonetheless...

Point 1: Through the invisible tax of inflation that results from the dilution of purchasing power caused by newly created money entering the system reducing the value of dollars already there.

Well, what's the alternative? Deflation? You want prices to fall? You want stocks, homes, business values, and assets of all kinds to fall in value? Inflation is an indication of healthy buying in an economy. Printing currency is necessary because as goods and services increase, so to does the money supply, lest they want to deflate everything. There is no such thing as an "inflation tax". It's a great scare tactic. The reality is, prices go up, but so too does wages, and investments, which make up for inflation.

Point 1.5: Furthermore, since March, 2006, the Fed stopped publishing the M-3 aggregate of the total amount of dollars in circulation. With that transparency gone, big buyers of US Treasuries now have to calculate the value of the dollar based on speculation and uncertainty rather than hard data - not a way to inspire trust in the financial markets that function best in an atmosphere of openness and clarity.

The M-3 aggregate was, "M2 + all other CDs (large time deposits, institutional money market mutual fund balances), deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements." The reason they stopped publishing the M-3 aggregate is because it didn't really tell you anything substantially important, that the M-2 aggregate did not already do. I'm guessing you didn't even bother to study up on what the M-aggregates even are...

Point 2: The public also loses because the banking cartel is able to practice usury - from it's power over a flexible currency to artificially move rates up or down to any level it chooses which many small lenders in a truly free and open market can't do.

Wrong. The Federal Reserve board of governors (who are nominated by the President) decide the interest rates, by lowering or raising the Federal Funds Rate. This is NOT DICTATED BY THE BANKS. It is dictated by the market, in something called the Open Market Operations. I'm not expecting you to have researched any of this......but you need to first learn the basic economics of our financial system, before you go about speaking from ignorance about how evil it all is...

Point 3: Through the taxes, we, the public, must pay to cover the interest on the huge national debt (now over $8.4 trillion) accumulated from the money the Fed printed and loaned to the government. As mentioned earlier, that now totals an annualized amount exceeding two-thirds of a trillion dollars and increasing daily. It's made the bankers rich, ordinary people poorer, and the public none the wiser it's been fleeced big time.

Wrong again. All interest paid to the Federal Reserve is REBATED, REFUNDED, RETURNED, GIVEN BACK, ETC ETC BACK TO THE US TREASURY. HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT THIS BEFORE IT'LL SINK INTO YOUR BRAIN???

Point 4: Compounding the above abuse, the cartel is able to get the public to bail out the system with more of its tax dollars. It happens whenever any of the too-big-to-fail banks need financial help to survive. The same is true for big corporations like Chrysler or Lockheed, large investment firms or hedge funds like Long-Term Capital Management or even countries like Mexico. It's also true when a single bank goes out of business and depositors must be compensated or more seriously in the wake of a systemic financial meltdown like the one that wiped out many savings and loan banks in the 1980s. Whether it's a single bank or many dozens at a time, public tax dollars are used to save the system or just pick up the tab to repay depositors insured against losses through government insurance protection up to a stipulated amount per account.

Corporate bail outs are seriously ridiculous. We reward executives for running their own companies into ground, privatizing profits, socializing losses, can't disagree here...

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Seeing as you just lumped together 3 persuasive essays together, I'm only going to respond to the first one. Additionally, since you failed to come up with your own arguments, I'm not expecting you to post any reliable response. Why? Because you plagarize other people's work. Whoever wrote those essays can not come here to the PDD, and argue with us. It's you who must argue, and it's you, who refuses to argue. So what's next? You going to insult my intelligence again???




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LINK to debate about gold standard... http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...66&pagenumber=2

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quote:

Originally posted by culorut No shit, they are using every excuse in the book to stay away from the subject. If you post a video of a legitimate person/documentary they will complain it's on youtube so it cannot be taken seriously. Trolls will be trolls.

Wrong. You refuse to debate on point with any of us. Whose staying away from the subject? Respond to my points in the above post you little wimp. Hopefully you won't plagiarize either...

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Wrong. You refuse to debate on point with any of us. Whose staying away from the subject? Respond to my points in the above post you little wimp. Hopefully you won't plagiarize either...

Man, you should really tone down the abusive language. You lose a bit o' cred when you're calling people names.

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Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

quote:

Wrong. You refuse to debate on point with any of us. Whose staying away from the subject? Respond to my points in the above post you little wimp. Hopefully you won't plagiarize either...

Wrong I just refuse to debate with trolls now that most of them have shown their true colors (including you) that is.

And if you want me to bring it PM me where I can meet up with you, talking tough on an internet forum is pretty weak.

Wimp?

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Man, you should really tone down the abusive language. You lose a bit o' cred when you're calling people names.

And? If I get called a fraud, a troll, etc., I'm not just going to sit back and take it. You've seemed to overlook that?? I fight fire with fire.

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Last edited by Krypton on Oct-17-2008 at 17:52

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Wrong I just refuse to debate with trolls now that most of them have shown their true colors (including you) that is. And if you want me to bring it PM me where I can meet up with you, talking tough on an internet forum is pretty weak. Wimp? LOL

NO, NO PMs. Why are you refusing to debate? Gee, if your world view is so solid, and right on, why do you refuse to debate right here, right now. I challenge you HERE AND NOW. REFUTE MY POINTS. Don't be a wimp. No PMs, no delay tactics, no ad hominems. Debate or shut the fuck up. PLEASE I beg you. DEBATE. There are 5 points which I have refuted. If you disagree with my refutes, REBUTE ME!!!!!!!!!! Here, here's the post again. Have shot at, WITHOUT PLAGIARIZING.

This goes for Trancer too. I want you guys to debate me. Why won't you?

quote:

Point 1: Through the invisible tax of inflation that results from the dilution of purchasing power caused by newly created money entering the system reducing the value of dollars already there. Well, what's the alternative? Deflation? You want prices to fall? You want stocks, homes, business values, and assets of all kinds to fall in value? Inflation is an indication of healthy buying in an economy. Printing currency is necessary because as goods and services increase, so to does the money supply, lest they want to deflate everything. There is no such thing as an "inflation tax". It's a great scare tactic. The reality is, prices go up, but so too does wages, and investments, which make up for inflation. Point 1.5: Furthermore, since March, 2006, the Fed stopped publishing the M-3 aggregate of the total amount of dollars in circulation. With that transparency gone, big buyers of US Treasuries now have to calculate the value of the dollar based on speculation and uncertainty rather than hard data - not a way to inspire trust in the financial markets that function best in an atmosphere of openness and clarity. The M-3 aggregate was, "M2 + all other CDs (large time deposits, institutional money market mutual fund balances), deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements." The reason they stopped publishing the M-3 aggregate is because it didn't really tell you anything substantially important, that the M-2 aggregate did not already do. I'm guessing you didn't even bother to study up on what the M-aggregates even are... Point 2: The public also loses because the banking cartel is able to practice usury - from it's power over a flexible currency to artificially move rates up or down to any level it chooses which many small lenders in a truly free and open market can't do. Wrong. The Federal Reserve board of governors (who are nominated by the President) decide the interest rates, by lowering or raising the Federal Funds Rate. This is NOT DICTATED BY THE BANKS. It is dictated by the market, in something called the Open Market Operations. I'm not expecting you to have researched any of this......but you need to first learn the basic economics of our financial system, before you go about speaking from ignorance about how evil it all is... Point 3: Through the taxes, we, the public, must pay to cover the interest on the huge national debt (now over $8.4 trillion) accumulated from the money the Fed printed and loaned to the government. As mentioned earlier, that now totals an annualized amount exceeding two-thirds of a trillion dollars and increasing daily. It's made the bankers rich, ordinary people poorer, and the public none the wiser it's been fleeced big time. Wrong again. All interest paid to the Federal Reserve is REBATED, REFUNDED, RETURNED, GIVEN BACK, ETC ETC BACK TO THE US TREASURY. HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT THIS BEFORE IT'LL SINK INTO YOUR BRAIN??? Point 4: Compounding the above abuse, the cartel is able to get the public to bail out the system with more of its tax dollars. It happens whenever any of the too-big-to-fail banks need financial help to survive. The same is true for big corporations like Chrysler or Lockheed, large investment firms or hedge funds like Long-Term Capital Management or even countries like Mexico. It's also true when a single bank goes out of business and depositors must be compensated or more seriously in the wake of a systemic financial meltdown like the one that wiped out many savings and loan banks in the 1980s. Whether it's a single bank or many dozens at a time, public tax dollars are used to save the system or just pick up the tab to repay depositors insured against losses through government insurance protection up to a stipulated amount per account. Corporate bail outs are seriously ridiculous. We reward executives for running their own companies into ground, privatizing profits, socializing losses, can't disagree here...

I also want to thank Capitalizt for taking the time to have a rational debate about these very same topics. It was cordial, rational, and respectful. He also spoke from his own mind, without plagiarizing other works.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=496480&forumid=66&s=

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Last edited by Krypton on Oct-17-2008 at 18:04

I don't need too, John F Kennedy and Abraham Lincoln already have made this known to the public and tried to abolish the Federal Reserve.

The FED is a scam and it is absolutely corrupt.

After Lincoln printed 400 million dollars of "greenbacks" (real US backed money) the London Times had this to say...

quote:

"if that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without a debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. The brains and the wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed, or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe."

A bit odd what reading a little bit of your own history proves don't you think?