quote:

Originally posted by eulerfx I consider MDMA a very safe and benign substance, if you take certain percautions, such as preloading on 100mg of tryptophan daily, for a couple of days before rolling, and the day after. Take vitamin C before and after the roll. Gingko bilboa herbs are really nice. Eat healthly and exercise. Moreover, it is essential to find the one tablet that works best, and the one that contains only MDMA and not MDE, MDA, DXM, ephedra, etc. In this way, many have virtually eliminated tolerance, and are able to roll several days in a row with the same dose. Any tests in animals, which use around 20 mg per kg body weight, (whereas a standard human dose is ~120 mg) show certain amounts of neurotoxicity, but that is entirely due to the huge overdoes, which basically overworks the 5-HT neurons and releases too much dopamine. All of this can be pretty much allieviated by taking anti-oxidants such as Vitamin C. SSRI's after the roll will help, though during the roll they will only ihibit the effects of MDMA. Many consider MDMA much safer then alchohol. If all the above percautions are taken the only things to take into consideration are overworking your heart and not drinking too much, and generally not hurting yourself, developing an eating schedule, since it kills appetite for a while. Like many of you said, the experience depends mostly on what you make of it. Bad trips usually result from a bad state of mind coupled with bad preparations. If you've been a constant user for a while, stop for a month or two, then start again with those percautions in mind and you should be fine.

NO NO NO!!!!

NO SSRI's during OR after MDMA usage! Will give you seratonin syndrome, and actually POTENTIATE nerve damage due to EXTENDED nerve stimulation (look up glutamatergic excitotoxicity, and its the same sort of principle!)

animal tests use huge doses of mdma per equivalent kg of body weight. a good strong pill will be 100-120 mg. Your normal pill is probably 60-80 mg. which is about 1-2mg per kg max.

5ht neurons don't release dopamine, they release 5ht

supression of appetite is mainly due to the amphetamine or MDMA derivatives that you usually find in the pills.

Ask me anything about this stuff, i'm a pharmacologist

___________________

The Midnight Collective MySpace

quote:

Originally posted by dj_mdma NO NO NO!!!! NO SSRI's during OR after MDMA usage! Will give you seratonin syndrome, and actually POTENTIATE nerve damage due to EXTENDED nerve stimulation (look up glutamatergic excitotoxicity, and its the same sort of principle!) 5ht neurons don't release dopamine, they release 5ht supression of appetite is mainly due to the amphetamine or MDMA derivatives that you usually find in the pills.

well from what i read, i just thought they somehow block the possible neurotoxicity of dopamine. mostly what is usually warned against is MAO inhibitors in combination with MDMA.

i didn't mean to imply that 5-ht neurons release dopamine. i only mentioned dopamine so say that its the stuff that caused the most prominent damage in animal tests.

but all i know is from reading some books and erowid.org so my knowledge is probably limited and i have very little experience.

so a general question i have for you, is does Vitamin C indeed supress the potential neurotoxic effects of standard doses of MDMA?

___________________

blog
deep blue records
Leo G - my discogs

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee TECHno Addict: i know exactly what you mean. i tried xtc for the first time 2 years ago my senior year in high school and it was a really amazing experience and i was instantly addicted to it. i pretty much rolled every weekend my whole senior year and continued on with it even after i graduated. i also smoked pot and popped xanax like it was going out of style. anyway i started to notice that my xtc experiences were getting shittier and shittier and i knew it wasn't the pills (my friends thought that was the reason) because the people i did it with had no problem and i had gotten all sluggish and depressed. so finally i just said "Screw it" and i haven't done it since dec.28 at club space for pvd. it ruined the whole night i might add and it was my first time seeing pvd. lol anyway i have completely given up xtc and i also quit smoking pot AND cigerettes. i dont know how i did it but i just did. i had developed anxiety disorder for a while too and i believe that like 80% of why was due to my drug use. i am much better now though cuz i dont do all that shite. im glad u are deciding to quit. it's such a false sense of happiness (xtc) and it just eats away your brain in my opinion. i dont know if i will NEVER smoke pot again though cuz i enjoy a nice joint to relax a bit. but right now im in college and working so i can't be smoking pot cuz i'll just get distracted and i cant afford that right now. another thing i realized was that the people i called my "best friends" were just my drug buddies really in the end. i dont even hang out with them any more cuz all they do is get high! i had to move on. the only drug i do now is music u should try it.

Dude, this is exactly like me. Well accept a couple of different things. I was never addicted to xtc and I dont see it as an addicting drug. First time I tried it, it was the best feeling I have ever had. I loved it. But yet this didn't make me think, oh I got to do this again next week. I cant beleive people want to do it the next couple of days, them are some drug addicts there. THe negative after affects alone stay with your for a couple of days, yet you still want to try it so soon. It was 1 year and about two months when I tried ecstasy again, and it was alright, but the settings and enviroment I was in didn't make it a good feeling. So basically it wasn't worth taking it.

I have tried a couple of drugs, but most of them are just one timers, like meth,shrooms(did it twice),ecstasy. Pot and coke stuck with me for awhile. Pot was just a thing to do, make it relaxing, its like just drinking beer, but then I started drifting from it, and just quit it. Its been over 4 months since I smoked. Coke was the only thing I somewhat thought was addicting. On and off I used it, but say when I run out, I dont go around and think "I have to have some more", I just push it off. Like it has been nearly 1 year since I last did it.

Only drug I can see being addicint thats not "Physically addicting" is Crack,and Meth/speed/crank/ice whatever the hell you want to call it these days. Heroin being the "Physically one" is just crazy that people want to try it.


My advice to drug users, just stick to Alcohol, its basically all you need, plus I see no regret doing it, like I do with I used to do drugs.

quote:

Originally posted by DjEuphoria Only drug I can see being addicint thats not "Physically addicting" is Crack,and Meth/speed/crank/ice whatever the hell you want to call it these days. Heroin being the "Physically one" is just crazy that people want to try it.

You do realize that crack and meth are some of the most physically addictive drugs, right?

quote:

Originally posted by eulerfx well from what i read, i just thought they somehow block the possible neurotoxicity of dopamine. mostly what is usually warned against is MAO inhibitors in combination with MDMA. i didn't mean to imply that 5-ht neurons release dopamine. i only mentioned dopamine so say that its the stuff that caused the most prominent damage in animal tests. but all i know is from reading some books and erowid.org so my knowledge is probably limited and i have very little experience. so a general question i have for you, is does Vitamin C indeed supress the potential neurotoxic effects of standard doses of MDMA?

dopamine and seratonin have no neurotoxic effects of their own per se, as they are naturally occuring neurotransmitters in the brain. Of course they can cause neurotoxicity if the stimulate the nerves for long enough, just like glutamate excitotoxicity. I would not recomment the usage of ANY type of antidepressent in combination of MDMA as i have mentioned above.

MAO inhibitors (especially the non specific ones such as moclobenide (i think)) should not be taken in conjunction with tyramine containing foods, cos the tyramine (which is usually broken down with MAO) is allowed to build up and you can get ill.

It is the same principle as to why you shouldn't combine an antidepressant with mdma use.

There is no proof as of yet if vitamin C has any beneficial effects against MDMA. however, MDMA is strongly suggested to have an oxidative effect in the brain, and since vitamin c is an anti-oxidant, then it is very likely that it will have neuroprotective effects in that aspect. It has not been proven, because there are no research teams out there that are looking at neuroprotection on MDMA. However, if you put the logic in there, as i have, and as have many others, then it is probably very beneficial!

___________________

The Midnight Collective MySpace

even though this thread is probably full of a pro vs. anti drug flame war, ill disregard the idiodic bullshit and put in my two pence worth.

you find after a few year of mdma use that it stops doing muc hafter a while, its best you dont bother with it again rather than taking more and more pills to get a good high.

ive just moved onto mushrooms now, they dont make me mongy and i can munch them all before i go out so i dont have to contemplate and drug taking exploits within a club.

___________________
Fave Tune at the Moment: Mesmerizer - Taking Control

>>> Download my mix here <<< (Electro, Techno & Psy-Trance)

quote:

Originally posted by Ste you find after a few year of mdma use that it stops doing muc hafter a while, its best you dont bother with it again rather than taking more and more pills to get a good high.

never bother with it again is too strong of a statement. waiting a coupld of months will do. but i do agree that taking more pills is a lost cause. if you have to take more pills, you will have a worse roll and a worse crash, hangover, etc.

shrooms are considered among the safest of the psychoactives. i hear they are also easy to cultivate. never tried them though, people say you can't really do anything while tripping...is that true?

___________________

blog
deep blue records
Leo G - my discogs

quote:

Originally posted by eulerfx people say you can't really do anything while tripping...is that true?

That's quite untrue!

A professional baseball player once pitched a no hitter while tripping on 3 hits of LSD. I think saying you can't do anything while tripping isn't true. I have had total loss of reality before and an out of body experience but that was a strong trip most users would be afraid to take that much.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix