quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie Oh that Lilith, is there nothing she can't do?!

Good question. I hope she can address these issues, because she seems to have overlooked a few things:

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith You probably should stop buying computers and smart phones then because the Tantalum in them comes mostly from central African countries with human rights abuses and civil wars that make the bad things that happen in Mexico look like a school yard punch up.

Except drug trafficking is an illegal and unsupervised enterprise, so there's a difference between what I'm saying and the example I've provided.

For one thing, manufacturers are legal enterprises that can be prosecuted, and their actions can be supervised by independent bodies (both governmental organisations and NGOs), reason why quite often a PR scandal involving a company comes to the surface, and they're forced to solve the problem. Drug pushers aren't subject to the same processes.

That's why it'd be better for everyone if you guys did your best to legalise drugs in your countries, instead of trying to convince others there's nothing wrong with this.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith But you probably wont.

I do what I can. My trainers, for example:



Brazil has a very good labour regulation in general, so I trust the footwear produced here. Also, I've been refraining from buying products made by Foxconn for similar reasons, until they sort their last problem out.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Telling drug users to just go overdose already because it indirectly causes other people problems is like telling depressed people to just kill themselves because then they won't be sad anymore.

Except that's not my point.

I'm specifically talking about drugs produced in other countries: If you want to get high, be my guest. Just make sure you know what the chain of production is, because this is trickier than when you buy a legal product.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On You cannot and will not ever stop people from doing drugs any more than you can tell them to stop having sex.

That's precisely why I'm saying people should be more careful about what their buy if they must get high. It's akin to saying you should wear a condom if you suspect you're infected with HIV. You know it's more likely to cause problems, how hard is it to just take a little precaution?

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Lira, how many drugs have you used? How many drug pushers have you been around? How many times have you picked up drugs?

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Originally posted by enydo Lira, how many drugs have you used?

Alcohol and caffeine quite a few times. That's about it.

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Originally posted by enydo How many drug pushers have you been around?

I've been offered drugs in the past, and occasionally spot people using it in large events (mainly hemp), but I really can't give you a precise number. So eleventy.

quote:

Originally posted by enydo How many times have you picked up drugs?

Never, except for the ones I mentioned, of course.

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What about mdma in Netherlands? That's not cool either?

I've heard mdma is safer then alcohol

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Originally posted by Kylle What about mdma in Netherlands? That's not cool either? I've heard mdma is safer then alcohol

If it's produced there, and it doesn't cause any real problems to Dutch society, then I don't see what the problem could be.

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That's all well and good to support labour regulation, but your point has been that the consumers ought not support the murderous and oppressive practices of the manufacturers and the distributors. Many international corporations have a repeated and damaging past in this regard, and exploit the people of numerous nations, whether foreign to yours or domestic, regardless of their legal culpability. It's because one of the very elementary components of criminal activity in the first place is advised (ill or otherwise) faith that the criminal will not be caught. Yet you buy their laptops, their ipods, their clothing, their confections, their everything, and somehow feel that you are dignified above drug users and righteous in your condemnation and calls for their death because said companies have a reputation to uphold?

Not a single soul here would claim that drug kingpins and the IMMENSE network of hands that feed them (and are fed) are the only part of the problem. But to claim they are beyond prosecution is laughable, and proves an absence of faith that you oppositely harbour for the oversight of other industries who obviously do their deeds in nations where they can escape not only the oversight of their practices, but where they can exploit the black market that is the underclass of developing nations. Drug dealers peddle narcotics and violence to enforce their economic regulation. Companies like Nestle, Apple, and Coca Cola peddle their products and the violent enforcement of slave labour to optimize their profit margins.

Nobody but you is saying one is more right than the other, as they ought not.

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Last edited by Halcyon+On+On on Nov-28-2012 at 03:00

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On That's all well and good to support labour regulation, but your point has been that the consumers ought not support the murderous and oppressive practices of the manufacturers and the distributors. Many international corporations have a repeated and damaging past in this regard, and exploit the people of numerous nations, whether foreign to yours or domestic, regardless of their legal culpability. Yet you buy their laptops, their ipods, their clothing, their confections, their everything, and somehow feel that you are dignified above drug users and righteous in your condemnation and calls for their death because said companies have a reputation to uphold?

No, I don't feel either dignified or righteous. I feel fucking afraid because I'm here where we have to deal with all the violence produced by these groups.

The reason why I mentioned people overdosing is because the innocent are dying. If you feel offended because I'm saying something, what does it mean for us that can take a bullet to the head for not saying anything?

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Not a single soul here would claim that drug kingpins and the IMMENSE network of hands that feed them (and are fed) are the only part of the problem. But to claim they are beyond prosecution is laughable, and proves an absence of faith that you oppositely harbour for the oversight of other industries who obviously do their deeds in nations where they can escape not only the oversight of their practices, but where they can exploit the black market that is the underclass of developing nations.

What I'm trying to say is that, in these countries, governments can resort to legal measures to tackle this problem. We can't do this with drug trafficking.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Drug dealers peddle narcotics and violence to enforce their economic regulation. Companies like Nestle, Apple, and Coca Cola peddle their products and the violent enforcement of slave labour to optimize their profit margins.

And we should do whatever we can to solve these problems.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Nobody but you is saying one is more right than the other, as they ought not.

Are you really saying that buying a controlled/regulated/legal product is the same as buying something no one is taking care of?

Brazil has an estimated population of 206 million according to the census. About 48 million people with an STD. That's almost 25% of the population. I know you like statistics Lira and it doesn't look any better here in the U.S. Brazilian women are gorgeous curvey women in general, but every rose has it's thorn.

Well people just shouldn't have sex if they need to get off. They're what's supporting STDs. In fact they should probably just die for not choosing partners who have undergone rigorous testing.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dj Skez Brazil has an estimated population of 206 million according to the census. About 48 million people with an STD. That's almost 25% of the population. I know you like statistics Lira and it doesn't look any better here in the U.S. Brazilian women are gorgeous curvey women in general, but every rose has it's thorn.

Well, yeah, I guess the challenge lies in remaining in the 75%

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well people just shouldn't have sex if they need to get off. They're what's supporting STDs. In fact they should probably just die for not choosing partners who have undergone rigorous testing.

Come on, Hal, you know that's neither my argument nor a consequence of what I'm saying

You're right, it wasn't fair, but nothing is right until you start pointing the fingers solely at people who kill others. It doesn't matter what the reason is. To compartmentalize the issue of murder is to undermine everyone's individual participation in each derivative instance, and thus to devalue individualization, itself.

I voted for Marijuana legalization and I won! (Okay, so I had some help)

How many Mexicans have you saved this year?

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.