I posted these things after the quotes you pulled:

quote:

Originally posted by Yours tranny I'm willing to say that it's acceptable to call the sound of the tweaking tb303 'acid' (though I personally would never say this), if you admit that there are acid house tracks that don't use TB303, and that acid house is a movement. No reason it can't be both, it's just a word. but I still think it's more correct to say the technique is acid, whether it's a 303 or drum machine, or a sampler, or whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by Yours tranny that's why i suggested we just accept both as truth. no reason the word 'acid' can't be used to refer to: 1.) the sound of a 303 tweaking 2.) any synthesizer/drum machine/sampler manipulated in a similar way 3.) a constellation of house records mostly originating from a dance culture in chicago which signaled a distinct break from disco oriented tracks to alien-sounding, aggressive, percussive, rhythmic tracks that relied on repetitive, variously articulated mechanical manipulation and modulation of early synthesizers, drum machines, and samplers, central to which was (1).

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker This! The TB303 is 100% responsible for that "Acid" designation. For starters, it went well with LSD (aka acid). When I've worked with DJ's who asked for an acidic sound, the TB303 emulation was always what satisfied their requirement. And Dear God, I've heard enough of shitty music made with the 303 to last a life-time; music incidentally referred to as "Acid" at the time when "Acid" music was in its heyday on the dance floor. Every Acid House record I ever picked up had a TB303 (sounding) riff in it. "Acid" and that notoriously misused little synth are absolutely synonymous. While other people have appropriated its sound for use in non-acid works, it is notoriously acidic. Jesus! Plastik Man's (Ritchie Hawtin) Sheet One, practically a showcase for everything the TB303 was capable of that it hadn't yet been used for, is a double-entendre, implicitly linking the association between the two. It wasn't because Hawtin was designating that the 303 be associated with Acid Music. It's simply because the 303 is acid.

Yes, that what i've heard of as well, that the TB-303 is/was responsible for the "acid" sound. That specific tweaked sound that sounds like a sick bird or something Well, for me that specific sound defines "acid" in the same way that the super-saw defines epic trance, orchestras define classical and heavy distorted quitars define metal music. simple as that. Well, yeah there are "grey areas" because it is musical genres we are talking about and not chairs or tables (even these concrete objects can be difficult to define sometimes, i know of a few "chair" examples...) but these instruments and sounds provide the points of gravity that the majority of the genre's examples revolve, going far to the genre's boundaries ("inter-section points" with other "genre-fields").

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Well, for me that specific sound defines "acid" in the same way that the super-saw defines epic trance, orchestras define classical and heavy distorted quitars define metal music.

Yes, and when I hear people claim that 1.) acid = 303 sound therefore 2.) acid house must have this 303 sound, to me it sounds as silly as someone claiming 1.) epic = supersaw sound therefore 2.) epic trance must have this supersaw sound, all because people all started making music with this sound and someone said it sounded epic and everyone picked the most obvious musical element to copy over and over again.


So I say, yes, let's just keep calling that sound acid, because it's so emblematic of the genre, but there are in fact plenty of acid house tracks without the TB-303, and also some without the squelchy 'acid' sound at all. They are certainly more rare - but there is more to this genre than this one sound, which is like the front man taking credit for all of the players.

Last edited by nefardec on May-19-2011 at 00:48

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I posted these things after the quotes you pulled:

Yes, but you obviously don't think that the sound is what is acid, you're just trying to pull a, "let's just both agree that we're both right," so that you don't lose.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lews Yes, but you obviously don't think that the sound is what is acid, you're just trying to pull a, "let's just both agree that we're both right," so that you don't lose.

Whoa.. paranoid much?

So the purpose of discussions is to just lambast one another and never agree on anything?

Sorry, but I like to come out with new understanding, that's why I start these things. I think this is a very interesting and typical case of the life of a genre.


Do you have anything useful to add to the discussion, or are you just going to be another noise distorting what could be a nice signal?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Whoa.. paranoid much? So the purpose of discussions is to just lambast one another and never agree on anything?

I'm not paranoid, you just keep showing that you don't actually think acid is the sound.

I believe discussions should end with an agreement. But I think they should end with an agreement on what is correct. You refuse to accept that you are wrong and so are trying to end the discussion by saying that everyone is correct - which isn't a real end.


Edit: Everything I have to say has been said by others much more eloquently than I could ever put it which is why I've just been reading, not trying to add to the discussion. Right now I'm just calling you out.

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acid became acid with the use of 303, nothing else. If there was no 303 there would be LSD yes but there would be no acid music/acid house imo.

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I don't think anyone is in disagreement that you can say the word 'acid' and be referring to a sound that you can make with the TB-303. The quibble is whether or not that 'acid house' can be defined without the TB-303.

Without Acid, there'd be no Acid House. Not just in terms of names, but quite literally, the etymology of the latter genre. Acid House is an almost evolutionary reaction to the sparse arrangement and over-stated prominence of the TB303 in Acid. Sound design in Acid House, as well as Hard House, resided predominantly in sonic palates inspired (if not outright created) by the TB303.

YOU WILL F&CKING ACCEPT MY NARRATIVE AS FACT!!

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Yes, and when I hear people claim that 1.) acid = 303 sound therefore 2.) acid house must have this 303 sound, to me it sounds as silly as someone claiming 1.) epic = supersaw sound therefore 2.) epic trance must have this supersaw sound, all because people all started making music with this sound and someone said it sounded epic and everyone picked the most obvious musical element to copy over and over again. So I say, yes, let's just keep calling that sound acid, because it's so emblematic of the genre, but there are in fact plenty of acid house tracks without the TB-303, and also some without the squelchy 'acid' sound at all. They are certainly more rare - but there is more to this genre than this one sound, which is like the front man taking credit for all of the players.

yeah, but its not "silly" but purely practical to state that acid house has that 303 sound and epic trance has that super-saw sound. Because the vast majority of acid house and epic trance tracks (around 98% pulling a random percentage lol) would feature these respective sounds. Yes there will always be a very slight percentage not conforming to the tb-303/super-saw consensus (mostly during a genre's starting point when a genre's boundaries are very ill-defined, as well at genre-inter-section points with other genres) but it is still a very small percentage and in most of the times not representative of the genre.



The tracks you have posted are good electro/EBM (maybe "proto-house") whatever stuff but definitely not straight "house" or "acid-house" for that matter. If that is the case then i could call all detroit techno "early trance" lol. Or classic trance "early epic trance". Or some deep blues early "rock n roll". The reason they are called different is because they sound different! (or to put it more scientifically, they have clear-cut perceptual differences corresponding to different intruments or production techniques). Trance had very pronounced synth-arpeggios (detroit techno didn't have them), epic trance had the super-saw sound (classic trance didn't have it), rock n roll had fast-paced electric quitars (deep blues didn't have them) and acid-house had the tb-303 "bird-sound" (previous house didn't have it). Hell, why not call acid house epic trance!? Some tracks are "epic" and "hypnotic". Or deep blues "heavy metal"? They are kinda "heavy" after all.

Its simple as that. You can stretch it semantically as far as you want but this is the plain truth

Last edited by PETRAN on May-19-2011 at 01:57

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Surmising, theorizing, wondering, fantasizing - yes, absolutely.

No, you're doing none of that.

You're just being wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Does anyone here have a clue?

Yes. I do.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec The point is, as I have made over and over again, that acid house was a movement within house/dance music which does was not dependent upon the TB-303 for its existence, though the TB-303 became one of its chief identifying characteristics.

I am to understand that you are advocating this argument without any formal education, training, practice, instruction, knowledge or expertise of vintage analog synths, their properties, or their methods which may or may not have helped flourish a very specific underground culture of British youths vacationing in Ibiza in the summer of 1987 and without any solid proof, evidence or concrete analysis of the nature of these synths and their direct influence on that culture at large.

Correct?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec The quibble is whether or not that 'acid house' can be defined without the TB-303.

Defining acid house without the 303 is like defining soccer without the ball.

In other words, I suppose you can, but why would you want to do that?

Your argument is nonsensical because it's just so fucking stupid.