ok, havent had time to read all replies but here's some thoughts...

Religion is a scary thought, in the sense that it only exists to keep society in some sort of order. It was pretty much created with the intention of giving people hope that there is life after death, that it will rain this month if you don't riot etc, all with the sole purpose of giving whoever was their master additional influence, control and power.

On the other hand a scary thought that is a reality is one where u sit down and think for a while... what are we doing here, what is our purpose, how were we created, and who created us. Then if u think about it u come to the point where neither religion nor science offers an explanation, as from the science point of view the universe had to start at some point, and even if it did start out of something the size of a tennis ball, what started the tennis ball and time and so on. From the religious point of view, say God created the universe, who created God, as even God had to start at some point right, as there simply has to be a starting point, infinite eternity simply doesn’t exist right?? Because if god was around for eternity, why weren't we created and eternity ago. :P DrUg_Tit0's reply sums it pretty much.

This gets me to the point about what then must happen to us when we die. Dying is the sole reason why even though I know religion is total nonsense, I too live in hope...
Because think about it, from the science perspective when we die, we cease to exist - this is the scariest thought of them all... always gives me chills. I mean, just hold on for a second, u cease to exist, as in u are so dead that u no longer know your dead - if there is a scarier thought then please do not let me know about it as this one is depressing enough as it is

On a different note, I hear that some neurons or whatever else is in our brain stay active for up to 2 months or so when we die... what that might feel like I don’t even want to get into... most probably like the most drugged up state ever....

damn i evny anyone that hasn't seen the light.. or is it has seen the light in this context :-) there is very little worry in an uncurious mind.

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Originally posted by Armin Raver ok, havent had time to read all replies but here's some thoughts... Religion is a scary thought, in the sense that it only exists to keep society in some sort of order. It was pretty much created with the intention of giving people hope that there is life after death, that it will rain this month if you don't riot etc, all with the sole purpose of giving whoever was their master additional influence, control and power. On the other hand a scary thought that is a reality is one where u sit down and think for a while... what are we doing here, what is our purpose, how were we created, and who created us. Then if u think about it u come to the point where neither religion nor science offers an explanation, as from the science point of view the universe had to start at some point, and even if it did start out of something the size of a tennis ball, what started the tennis ball and time and so on. From the religious point of view, say God created the universe, who created God, as even God had to start at some point right, as there simply has to be a starting point, infinite eternity simply doesn’t exist right?? Because if god was around for eternity, why weren't we created and eternity ago. :P DrUg_Tit0's reply sums it pretty much. This gets me to the point about what then must happen to us when we die. Dying is the sole reason why even though I know religion is total nonsense, I too live in hope... Because think about it, from the science perspective when we die, we cease to exist - this is the scariest thought of them all... always gives me chills. I mean, just hold on for a second, u cease to exist, as in u are so dead that u no longer know your dead - if there is a scarier thought then please do not let me know about it as this one is depressing enough as it is On a different note, I hear that some neurons or whatever else is in our brain stay active for up to 2 months or so when we die... what that might feel like I don’t even want to get into... most probably like the most drugged up state ever.... damn i evny anyone that hasn't seen the light.. or is it has seen the light in this context :-) there is very little worry in an uncurious mind.

ok you are obviously an idiot. you proved my point exactly, thank you for posting. "even though [you] know religion is total nonsense" you still believe in it simply because you can't except the alternative...that is just about the stupiest thing i've ever heard. please at least try to use some kind of stupid bible quotes to justify yourself like everyone else, but obviously you don't because you don't believe in god, but it sure is nice to know you'll be taken care of in the end isn't it?

i've never heard anything about your 2 neurons functioning after you die, so i'll just assume that its true...you still wouldn't feel anything because your nervous system isn't functioning. although you have some basic parts still trying to survive doesn't mean you can feel pain or anything for that matter.

sorry i don't mean to rip on you being that you a noob, but thats what you get for posting in a debate.

Floorfiller, no need to insult people.
Are you happy about a fact that you'll die and wither away? No, you are not, and in times of crisis, you think about how nice it would be if we all go to heaven and stuff. To hope, and to believe is not the same thing.

Armin, would you really want to live forever? I mean really forever? What's the point of life then. It'd get boring pretty soon, in a few thousand years or so, maybe. And imagine see everything around you die. All your friends dying away...And if they'd all live forever, there'd be more and more people all the time. And more and more animals. We'd be literally living on top of each other soon. And then there'll be no more food...So we'd all be starving.
Live your life so that you use it to the fullest, it is a challenge to do in a limited amount of time something people will remember.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Floorfiller, no need to insult people. Are you happy about a fact that you'll die and wither away? No, you are not, and in times of crisis, you think about how nice it would be if we all go to heaven and stuff. To hope, and to believe is not the same thing. Armin, would you really want to live forever? I mean really forever? What's the point of life then. It'd get boring pretty soon, in a few thousand years or so, maybe. And imagine see everything around you die. All your friends dying away...And if they'd all live forever, there'd be more and more people all the time. And more and more animals. We'd be literally living on top of each other soon. And then there'll be no more food...So we'd all be starving. Live your life so that you use it to the fullest, it is a challenge to do in a limited amount of time something people will remember.

maybe that was a little harsh...i guess i'm just a little caught up in the post hehehe. that still doesn't take away from the fact that he has a very ignorant way of coming to conclusions.

But he hasn't come to the conclusion, he said it's only a hope. There's a big difference between believing and hoping.

Oh, yes, the thing about neurons is wrong. Neurons without oxygen die very quickly, about 6 minutes or so after heart stops, most of them are allready not functional. Some cells live for few weeks after though, as long as they have supplies of nutrients. After that, they suffocate in their own waste. But the brain dies right away. That's why it's impossible to revive a person who's been dead for more than 5 or so minutes. The heart and everything else is still functional, but the brain is not.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 But he hasn't come to the conclusion, he said it's only a hope. There's a big difference between believing and hoping. Oh, yes, the thing about neurons is wrong. Neurons without oxygen die very quickly, about 6 minutes or so after heart stops, most of them are allready not functional. Some cells live for few weeks after though, as long as they have supplies of nutrients. After that, they suffocate in their own waste. But the brain dies right away. That's why it's impossible to revive a person who's been dead for more than 5 or so minutes. The heart and everything else is still functional, but the brain is not.

ok but why then does every religious person in here say hope is the point of religion...obviously there has to be some connection. i mean he said that he doesn't necessarily believe in religion in fact called it nonsense, but he still has hope that something totally based on that nonsensical religion is what happens...it just doesn't add up to me.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 But he hasn't come to the conclusion, he said it's only a hope. There's a big difference between believing and hoping. Oh, yes, the thing about neurons is wrong. Neurons without oxygen die very quickly, about 6 minutes or so after heart stops, most of them are allready not functional. Some cells live for few weeks after though, as long as they have supplies of nutrients. After that, they suffocate in their own waste. But the brain dies right away. That's why it's impossible to revive a person who's been dead for more than 5 or so minutes. The heart and everything else is still functional, but the brain is not.

untrue..in cases where the person fell into freezing cold water..people have been revived up to 17 minutes later...maybe with a little brain damage..but they have been revived....

and for people who belive in religion just because they need to know something happens after u die....THE LAW OF CONSERVATION...i said it before energy can not be created or destroyed....so the energy of your body lives on and is constantly being recycled. so basically u do live on.

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono Appearently neither do you.

Apparently, but not really.

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono How can you possibly say "You don't have to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven." Where are you learning this?

From the Magisterium... and they know a hell of a lot more than you do.

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

Absolutely true...

You see, you automatically assumed my argument was wrong because you could open up a Bible and find an apparently contradictory quote.

However, this quote is not contradictory to the fact that you don't have to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven.

Since you're so brilliant, and know all about the issues you're talking about, I'll leave you to figure the above paradox(?) out. But since I'm so nice, I'll give you a hint: Anonymous Christians. Why don't you research the Church's teaching on them, and then come back and tell me I'm wrong?

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono You could practice any religion, or none at all, aslong as you are a good person, and end up going to heaven. What you are saying is blasphemy.

Quite true, except the blasphemy part. You see, if you really knew what was going on, you'd have some notion of Christian philosophy, which teaches quite rightly that you don't need religion to be saved. Morality is enough... BUT since religion is not a means to an end of being moral, but rather the opposite, it is beneficial to be religious and not only moral. And I already went over this innate vs. revealed business...

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono You're not wrong? And your perpective is the "real catholic position"? I really wonder how you can say some of these things, and maintain that it is the real Catholic position. That is suggesting that the Roman Catholic Church is blasphemous.

Again, no I'm not.

Do some homework, and then come and try to argue with me.

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Im pretty sure that the book of John was written in the new testement, and I guess the rules to get into heaven changed after Jesus was born!

Yes and no... go read my earlier post addressing the metaphor issue.

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and for people who belive in religion just because they need to know something happens after u die....THE LAW OF CONSERVATION...i said it before energy can not be created or destroyed....so the energy of your body lives on and is constantly being recycled. so basically u do live on.

I really fail to see how this fits into this discussion.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i think you miss the point of morality here. i can tell you have a notion of what morality is, but i simply don't agree with all of it. first off, morality does not transcend time, but what is thought of as moral is a direct result of the time and culture that one lives in. i know that you are thinking of larger scale morals that people have such a stealing and murder etc, but morality is more then the ten commandments. morals in our society can and do differ from those of other countries.

No no no... you're the one missing the whole point of morality. Anyone that actually knows what morality is, knows that it is absolutely not relative to culture. If you believe morality is relative to culture you are sorely mistaken, because a relative moral law is not a law because the two terms are contradictory. How a law be relative? True, morality is relative in a certain sense that whether an act is right or wrong depends on things like the person's motive and the situation they find themselves in, but most definately not in the sense that you suggest.

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Originally posted by Arbiter It's also interesting how you equate religious upbrining with moral behavior, when there is no evidence to suggest that any such relationship exists. In fact, given the recently illuminated perversity which has been stirring great controversy regarding the Catholic church, one could make quite a compelling argument that an inverse relationship is apparent (that is, without even referring to the morally devoid relationship between Muslims and Jews, or any of the innumerable historical references that have already been mentioned in this thread).

You know I'm not one to equate religious upbringing with morality, but I find it hard to believe that if someone is brought up in such a religious family, they could be immoral. To me, it just seems like a ridiculous idea... of course there are always exceptions, and we could spend all day arguing back and forth, but I don't think it's really worthwhile.

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Originally posted by Arbiter I don't think the issue is that simple. It's easy to say that a child, when born, is either going to be one to question or not. But it seems far more likely that a child's tendency to question is stronly influenced by his or her upbringing. When a child is raised in a devoutly religious environment, the child is not being encouraged to question things, instead, the child is being encouraged to accept things on faith.

Perhaps, but I think we're venturing into the area of psychology... an area I have absolutely no clue about. You say a child's tendency to question is stronly influenced by his or her upbringing... and I agree. Let's assume a child is being brought up in a devoutly religious environment, and let's also assume that a consequence of this upbringing is that they are not encouraged to question. If this is the case, then I agree with you to the extent that this is negative because part of living must be questioning... wrestling with issues that affect our life. But what about a child brought up in a devoutly atheistic family, who is taught religion is bad, and a consequence of this upbringing is that they do not question. This is also negative, and it seems to be what you are suggesting.

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Originally posted by Arbiter It becomes a bad thing when parents tell young children things, asserting them as facts, which are of dubious or controversial truth value.

Not all religious families are devout... I think an extremely small percent are, at least nowadays. You have made your case that being devoutly religious and raising a child is a bad thing, and I partially agree with you. But what about the other 99% who aren't devoutly religious? Is a parent teaching their children that they should be good people a bad thing? I certainly hope you don't think so.

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Originally posted by Michael Russo quote: and for people who belive in religion just because they need to know something happens after u die....THE LAW OF CONSERVATION...i said it before energy can not be created or destroyed....so the energy of your body lives on and is constantly being recycled. so basically u do live on. I really fail to see how this fits into this discussion.

becuase this thread is originally about what happens when u die....not about ur personal views on religion

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I believe we're just a group of molecules. When we die we stop functioning, and there is no soul that carrys on to the afterlife, as a few others pointed out.

That's my belief as well.

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There was no "Big Bang"

The Big Bang is simply a theory that could help explain how the Universe originated. As one of my profs instilled in me "Theories help to explain the world, they are not 'the world'".

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we're just in the right places that's sutiable the sustain life form.

I also agree with this.

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A very good point there. There is a 99.9% chance, well possibly 100%, that there is life form in millions of other places out there.

I agree with you 110%. The sheer size of the universe makes it that statistics favor other life forms existing and being able to evolve in a suitable environment.

Good post a-aplz

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I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

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