quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus so to mute this point all I will say is; At least you don't see capitalist societies massacre their own.

And I will mute this point with: In which case you should read history more.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Everybody, meet Dr. Schroeder: S: Hi Everybody! E: Hi Dr. Schroeder!!

lol

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Dr. Schroeder graduate of hamburger university

http://www.mcdonalds.com/corporate/careers/hambuniv/

I havn't read all this thread because it is very long and i got a headache already lol, but some people are talking about pain and suffering...e.g. 9.11. "If they prayed why didnt the towers not topple over" or something like that.

God gave man free will. That is the perfection with us, we choose what we want to do. You can't blame god for it, you blame the people. The world could be such a beautiful place if we humans decided to be more loving, peaceful and generous. This doesn't happen and the result is the current state of world affairs.

Those who do not live a life of loving people will go to hell, those who live their life true to themselves etc.. will go to heaven.

On a side note, why is it that people get so worked up discussing other peoples opinions. I mean, if you don';t believe it god, then fair enough, u have the right to believe in what you want, which is your right. It is also another person right to be "weak minded" etc... and believe that there was a creator and that it was god. Why can you not accept that? The reason is, is because allot of people become ignorant, and believe because they "know" the answer, this means then can look down on people who believe in god. In reality, its bullying and immature.

quote:

Originally posted by TiestoFanMatt I havn't read all this thread because it is very long and i got a headache already lol, but some people are talking about pain and suffering...e.g. 9.11. "If they prayed why didnt the towers not topple over" or something like that. God gave man free will. That is the perfection with us, we choose what we want to do. You can't blame god for it, you blame the people. The world could be such a beautiful place if we humans decided to be more loving, peaceful and generous. This doesn't happen and the result is the current state of world affairs. Those who do not live a life of loving people will go to hell, those who live their life true to themselves etc.. will go to heaven. On a side note, why is it that people get so worked up discussing other peoples opinions. I mean, if you don';t believe it god, then fair enough, u have the right to believe in what you want, which is your right. It is also another person right to be "weak minded" etc... and believe that there was a creator and that it was god. Why can you not accept that? The reason is, is because allot of people become ignorant, and believe because they "know" the answer, this means then can look down on people who believe in god. In reality, its bullying and immature.

you are right. It is in our hands. If we die of a drug overdose, is it G0ds fault? No we did the drugs. Well today, we are removing G0d and morals and ethics from the classrooms, removing the bible from the hearts and minds of our society, and what is happening in the end? nothing but more and more suicide, death, immorality, and lack of true happiness.

Anyways This thread is no where close to done, all these people as we can see throw out any proof almost no matter how true it is. If these people here threw out reality, then how can you present them reality? They already reject it as a possibility.

This is why, I am not writing quickly to all the responses here. I try to put a little time in to put some answers and further questions, but the major points I want to get across require perfection in their delivery, so that the cynics and mockers will have no way to discredit what is said.

The reality is that G0d exists and controls the world. The illusion is the opposite. IT is a matter of wording to bring this to a point where no one can challenge it because it is true. Like the sun will rise tomorrow, the truth will eventually stand on its own.

Happy Rosh Hashanah everyone!

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TORAHTRANCE CREW!

quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON you are right. It is in our hands. If we die of a drug overdose, is it G0ds fault? No we did the drugs. Well today, we are removing G0d and morals and ethics from the classrooms, removing the bible from the hearts and minds of our society, and what is happening in the end? nothing but more and more suicide, death, immorality, and lack of true happiness. Anyways This thread is no where close to done, all these people as we can see throw out any proof almost no matter how true it is. If these people here threw out reality, then how can you present them reality? They already reject it as a possibility. This is why, I am not writing quickly to all the responses here. I try to put a little time in to put some answers and further questions, but the major points I want to get across require perfection in their delivery, so that the cynics and mockers will have no way to discredit what is said. The reality is that G0d exists and controls the world. The illusion is the opposite. IT is a matter of wording to bring this to a point where no one can challenge it because it is true. Like the sun will rise tomorrow, the truth will eventually stand on its own. Happy Rosh Hashanah everyone!

Perhaps the reason why you are receiving mocking answers is because of your attitude. Let's recap: you started this thread with the premise that you have unequivocal proof of God's existance. To support your premise, you threw out some typical Creationist arguments (I call propaganda), and made the taunt with somewhat arrogant language that you dare anyone to refute it.

Well, a handful of folks here did, quite easily in fact. Specifically, we refuted your probability arguments by exibiting your logical fallacies within your arguments. To make your case worse, not only did you dodge such refutations, but continued to superciliously reply about how others (namely the folks you label anti-Jewish) whom do not respond to this thread are too stupid to respond. And then you continue to respond that you have factual proof of God's existance through your studies, but have failed to come up with substantial evidence of such. Then you make things worse by saying that no one can challenge it, which many already have and you continue to dodge. And finally, you have repeatedly responded how you are taking time to respond to our refutations and criticisms, but have yet to do so. Of course I understand that such responses do take time, but I have to admit that I'm becoming more incredulous that you will ever respond intelligently. The only response you gave was from your Dr. Schroeder who made a very simplistic and uneducated remark about abiogenesis, which I am very skeptical of his understanding of the matter altogether. You still have yet to respond to me about Dr. Schroeder's credentials.

And you have the audacity to wonder why people are mocking you?!?

I personally believe you have drastically underestimated the knowledge of your audience here. I would ask you to be careful in the future when presenting such arguments to pay attention to the language within your statements. You also might want to pay heed to supporting your claims with sound research and evidence in the future. It is becoming more and more obvious that you were in over your head with some of your arguments (mainly the ones you cut and pasted in the beginning), and it is not shameful or dishonorable to graciously back down from certain arguments that you have given little support.

On a personal note, I will tell you that I am not an atheist or agnostic. I do believe in God, and I believe the Bible is a powerful and useful tool on morality and how to live your life. However, with a background in biology, I learned long ago to separate my faith and religous beliefs from scientific fact and observation. It honestly is not difficult to do. Matters of religious faith should never be associated with science, and the two should forever be separate.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by TiestoFanMatt I havn't read all this thread because it is very long and i got a headache already lol, but some people are talking about pain and suffering...e.g. 9.11. "If they prayed why didnt the towers not topple over" or something like that. God gave man free will. That is the perfection with us, we choose what we want to do. You can't blame god for it, you blame the people. The world could be such a beautiful place if we humans decided to be more loving, peaceful and generous. This doesn't happen and the result is the current state of world affairs. Those who do not live a life of loving people will go to hell, those who live their life true to themselves etc.. will go to heaven. On a side note, why is it that people get so worked up discussing other peoples opinions. I mean, if you don';t believe it god, then fair enough, u have the right to believe in what you want, which is your right. It is also another person right to be "weak minded" etc... and believe that there was a creator and that it was god. Why can you not accept that? The reason is, is because allot of people become ignorant, and believe because they "know" the answer, this means then can look down on people who believe in god. In reality, its bullying and immature.

u r awesome!

the thing that i hope all the athiests realize is that by being mean and bullying us believers, you are infact only making us stonger believers because it says in the bible that we will be procecuted, and since you are procecuting us that just gives us one more reason to believe.

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Last edited by Bondor on Sep-26-2003 at 17:29

quote:

Originally posted by TiestoFanMatt On a side note, why is it that people get so worked up discussing other peoples opinions. I mean, if you don';t believe it god, then fair enough, u have the right to believe in what you want, which is your right. It is also another person right to be "weak minded" etc... and believe that there was a creator and that it was god. Why can you not accept that? The reason is, is because allot of people become ignorant, and believe because they "know" the answer, this means then can look down on people who believe in god. In reality, its bullying and immature.

Title of thread: there is no G-d? religion is bull? read this and I DARE YOU TO ARGUE

No one is trying to force their disbelief on others. I'm pretty sure there's never been a thread entitled: There is no God ... I DARE YOU TO ARGUE or any such equivalency.

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bondor u r awesome! the thing that i hope all the athiests realize is that by being mean and bullying us believers, you are infact only making us stonger believers because it says in the bible that we will be procecuted, and since you are procecuting us that just gives us one more reason to believe.

Actually, I don't see where you get the idea that atheists are bullying you. Infact, the very title of this thread is showing that it started out as believers trying to convert atheists and bully them into accepting religion (as they have done countless times in the past, I may add). Still, I don't recall I ever bullied you into denying god. I also don't recall I ever said I'm 100% certain there is no god, because such a thing is unprovable. The only thing I have attempted to do is to disapprove some silly arguments like claiming to have the proof for the existance of god, or calling for god's direct involvement in the individual's matters on earth. The fact of the matter is that the picture of god as an old bearded man sitting on a cloud and granting wishes to good people who are praying to him is a picture directed at people with low intellectual capacity.

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1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by Bondor u r awesome! the thing that i hope all the athiests realize is that by being mean and bullying us believers, you are infact only making us stonger believers because it says in the bible that we will be procecuted, and since you are procecuting us that just gives us one more reason to believe.

No offense, Bondor, but I grow weary of hearing believers play this victim card. Religious folks bash non-religious folks just as consistently as the reverse (like the title of this thread). I'm a believer, and I get tired of hearing Christian fundamentals pull the "stop Christian bashing" card in their argument. They only have themselves to blame, opening the door to criticism countless times throughout history. Only those who continue to close their mind to alternative beliefs and ideas tend to throw this card out. I hope you're not one of them.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax You're an idiot. Have fun doing well in life.

you guys are right, and i didnt realize that when i posted, perhaps i have interpreted 'persecution' in the wrong way. thank you for noticing that.

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I'm not a die hard christian or anything, so i kinda dont want people to see me that way. When i hear die hard christian, i think of preachers on the street. Times have changed, and to spread the word of god, u dont do it by ennoyence in the streets, you do it by doing good will to others, another words, be a loving, kind and trustful person and it will catch on through overs (inspiration etc...)

i have no disrespect to DJBARON or anyone who argues, but sometimes, people get too heated in the discussion, and it goes two ways. One is never ever going to out prove the other, because you simply cannot prove that god doesnt exist.

I didnt mean to say that all atheists are mean or whatever, that is untrue, nothing like a good debate. there are two sides to the coin, and if the argument being put forward is that, what i said earlier, free will for humans, then you must be understanding that people can also choose to question their beliefs etc...

anyway its late and the methane from my dog farting is giving me a headache so must dash, sorry if this is grammatically incorrect!