quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r If someone of authority tells you to do something, you better damn well do it.

not much of a "fire" starter, eh

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T i asked about what's beneficial to the individual in question, not to everyone involved (who are 'everyone' in this context anyway? the suspect and the authority figures?), and also, as i said - we are diverting slightly off topic with this, meaning this isn't about whether rights are being infringed or not; you might as well just take it as granted that the individual is being questioned for doing something which is indeed illegal in your country. my point is, if you do not agree with a local law, after having done anything within your legal rights to prevent it or avoid it and failing, you can only comply or resist. declaring that compliance is the only beneficial option is ignorant (mind you, i'm not accusing you of saying that, you still have to clarify your standing on that). and lastly, two extreme examples to drive the point home: the jews during the holocaust complying with the nazis to take on various jobs against other jews; the lower rank officers complying with the higher rank orders of extermination (not only with nazis, but with any slaughter). legal authority is not the highest power a man needs to respect/fear (and no, i'm not referring to god).

Ahh, okay, I did misunderstand you. Apologies. It appears you are taking this to its logical end, to which admittedly I haven't even thought that far out about this. In your extreme examples, I would have to agree with you. The same could also be said of Ghandi, Martin Luther King, and so on - all noncompliant (albeit more peacefully). So yes, in such extreme instances I would agree.

I think the difference between those extreme instances and everyday arrests that might be considered questionable or abusive are the end result of the courts. Were there courts ultimately for the Jews to plead their cases of mass genocide at the time (of course there were later)? Parallel that to the instance of this individual or any individual wrongly accused or even abused at arrest (provided it was on tape or witnesses were present to rightly defend the suspect). The belief here is that the courts will ultimately hear his side and the evidence that supports his side versus the abusive or unlawful arrest by the law enforcer.

In the former case, or even if we take the case of MLK or Ghandi, they certainly felt they had no choice to rebel since they believed such injustices were not being enforced in any manner. The latter, however, theoretically has the courts to fall back towards to hopefully plead their case of innocence or injustice.

The caveat, of course, is this isn't perfect - it's certainly not perfect here in the States and its hella far from perfect in various other places globally. But theoretically I believe that is a distinct difference.

Was that any better, or am I still missing here?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by wizniz not much of a "fire" starter, eh

I can be, but I play by the rules

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Akridrot Apparently, nearly all of us are wrong. You know there's more than one side to a story right? Well here's the other side (eye witnesses, sober people and such): http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10 DAMN IT. The guy probably did deserve every jolt of pain sent into his body, and now we're mad at the wrong people.

...and didn't I just mention this goof mouthing off?
From the above link...(emphasis added)

quote:

Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn't have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their "drive-stun" method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.

Firestarter - 1
whiny libs - 0

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...and didn't I just mention this goof mouthing off? From the above link...(emphasis added) Firestarter - 1 whiny libs - 0

Wow. Say, can I go grab some librul blogging and forum smack and have a political bitch-off here? Honestly you'd think those MaxTucker posters have circle-jerks reading FreeRepublic or RedState or Malkin's blog FFS.

Or could we maybe try our darnest to understand that this is not a political partisan position to take? Jesus, Fire, do you always have to take a fucking position against liberalism at all costs no matter how logically inconsistent it might entail?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Ok, I was just looking at the Tucker Max board and it seems like there is more to the story than i first thought. Here is an eyewitness account from someone who was there at the time in the library:

quote:

Originally posted by Doormat Okay kids, I'm here! Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down. Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his ass kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble. Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems". He definitely taunted the UCPD into behaving the way they did with him. Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn't have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their "drive-stun" method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.

quote:

Originally posted by Doormat Just to clarify, the kid was struggling the moment the police officer put his hand on the guy's arm to escort him out. He had been physically struggling to get loose from the moment this entire thing occured up until the moment his ass got cuffed and dragged the fuck out. I don't know about Canada or any other nation, but I'm pretty sure if you struggle against a cop while being belligerent and dropping the F bomb while he is telling you to get the fuck out, you're in for some kind of beating, whether it be electrical, metallic, or boney.

The plot thickens.

Read the rest of the thread here for more info & discussion:
http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10

Last edited by A.J. on Nov-18-2006 at 12:10

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Wow. Say, can I go grab some librul blogging and forum smack and have a political bitch-off here? Honestly you'd think those MaxTucker posters have circle-jerks reading FreeRepublic or RedState or Malkin's blog FFS. Or could we maybe try our darnest to understand that this is not a political partisan position to take? Jesus, Fire, do you always have to take a fucking position against liberalism at all costs no matter how logically inconsistent it might entail?

Personally, I haven't read any of those sites you mentioned regarding this subject, but yes, I can't stand whiny libtards when truth is staring them down.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Damn. This has incident nothing to do with politics.

The guys screwed up, (what he did? the camera is unclear) but the result he got his whooped (did he deserve it? the camera is unclear)


Moral of the story: listen to the popo. regardless who is right...it will just hurt alot less!

quote:

Originally posted by Orbital32 Damn. This has incident nothing to do with politics. The guys screwed up, (what he did? the camera is unclear) but the result he got his whooped (did he deserve it? the camera is unclear) Moral of the story: listen to the popo. regardless who is right...it will just hurt alot less!

Actually it has everything to do with it...

From an LA police officer:

quote:

Jack Dunphy on LAPD Punching Video Filed under: General — Jack Dunphy @ 7:42 am [Posted by Jack Dunphy] A few more words about the videotaped arrest in Hollywood: It has been reported that one of the involved officers had twice previously been accused of using excessive force during arrests. Though neither charge was sustained, the uninformed reader may draw an inference that the officer has a pattern of such allegations, giving credence to Cardenas’s claims that he was victimized. It’s important to note that most LAPD officers working the street, including me, have at some point in their career been similarly accused. The filing of such complaints is a routine tactic employed by criminals, especially gang members, who use these allegations in their effort to discredit the officers who have arrested them. Sadly, this tactic has been known to work. Also, despite all the media attention focused on this incident, there has been remarkably little curiosity displayed in the press about Cardenas’s attorney, B. Kwaku Duren. Duren is affiliated with an organization called Cop Watch L.A., which, according to its website, expresses the following as its mission: CWLA is a program dedicated to the struggle that will end police terrorism through collecting information on and observing police activity, offer support for those caught in the criminal (in)justice system, fight for change without a reformist consciousness, and ultimately work side-by-side with oppressed communities(*) to create Revolutionary alternatives to policing, prisons, and all systems of domination, oppression and exploitation. Duren is also identified as the chairman of the New Black Panther Vanguard Movement, whose website offers the interested visitor additional insights as to what his motivating ideology might be. I acknowledge my bias in favor of the officers in the Cardenas case, but readers should also view Duren’s claims on behalf of his client through the lens of his own professed beliefs. My thanks to Patterico for offering me this forum. – Jack Dunphy

>>Source<<

Still think it's not 'political'?
Looks like most of you have been had.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Actually it has everything to do with it... From an LA police officer: >>Source<< Still think it's not 'political'? Looks like most of you have been had.

Before i been "had" you might want to do some research. Last i lived in LA... UCLA and Hollywood were not the same place. Nor anywhere does it state that the same officers were involved.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbital32 Before i been "had" you might want to do some research. Last i lived in LA... UCLA and Hollywood were not the same place. Nor anywhere does it state that the same officers were involved.

Last I checked, they're not that far apart and it's a cop talking about cop techniques; what you got?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Last I checked, they're not that far apart and it's a cop talking about cop techniques; what you got?

hmmm... have you ever been to los angeles? Something 10 miles away, really seems like 100 miles away. Do you happen to know how many police departments and sheriff departments there are out there? A cop talking about "cop techniques??" I don't see how that automatically fits this case.

On another thing that article stated nothing that i could see that had to anything about anything. You cited a blog from some cite that all it has is user opinions.