quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby You ignored the part where I said the deficit doesn't matter.

That wasn't true when Cheney said it and it's not now. The factor that's important is what stage the economy is in. We have two parties that have opposite views, and neither is sustainable. We have the Republicans that don't care about the bottom line in good times, and the Democrats that don't care about it in bad times. I'd lean slightly Democratic on this one, but that's just because I've witnessed how things have worked for the past 30 years, not because I'm an ideologue.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy That wasn't true when Cheney said it and it's not now. The factor that's important is what stage the economy is in. We have two parties that have opposite views, and neither is sustainable. We have the Republicans that don't care about the bottom line in good times, and the Democrats that don't care about it in bad times.

Exactly. We're going to get downgraded anyway because of our debt problem, not because of the debt ceiling going up another $2.4 Trillion. Markets see our government's utter lack of ability to control itself. And once the interest rates jump, all those "savings" from the so-called compromise we just had will disappear.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I agree with you man. A travesty, I hated Bush for doing it, and those of us who care about fiscal sanity saw the eventual results coming. Yet, it still pales in comparison to Obama's spending commitments.

Then why can't they repeal it?

And can you do us all a favor and explain where all the commitments came from. I can simplify, which is something that gets overlooked by short-sighted people:
"Wasted" Stimulus Plan - 40% was tax cuts, not spending
Bush Tax Cut extension - fought tooth & nail by Republicans.
Multiple wars - $1.6 trillion

Do me a favor & show the rest, excluding the legacy costs inherited by the Bush moves.

I would just like to add that my father worked in highway construction. We never were well-off (my parents made less combined than I did very quickly after I started working). Anyhow, my dad retired early and is taking a reduced pension now (so that my 12 year younger mother still gets paid when he dies). He wanted to continue working, but due to a lack of funds, there wasn't a job to be had.

P.S. I think this was a shitty move, as my dad will probably live longer...from an objective standpoint.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Exactly. We're going to get downgraded anyway because of our debt problem, not because of the debt ceiling going up another $2.4 Trillion. Markets see our government's utter lack of ability to control itself. And once the interest rates jump, all those "savings" from the so-called compromise we just had will disappear.

I don't disagree with you about the downgrade. It's going to happen for some contracts & funds that have certain requisites, as S&P says we're still fucked. This should have been bigger, and originally was proposed to be. And cuts should have come from everywhere and taxes should have gone up, especially for certain people that have proven NOT to be job creators.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Kev,
Do you realistically believe that the highest bracket now should be 39.6% for $380,500+? Especially considering that few people that make that much get direct deposit from their job, as opposed to most of their income coming from investments?

At what point do you say that you're getting tons of benefits from lower cost airfare, which is subsidized by the federal government? Or other actions that benefit higher income people that utilize the international trade system more than most people have the chance to?

Don't get me wrong, I realize you push lots of your income through Singapore and other out-of-country areas (as you've stated in PDD before), but explain how that is a viable motive "for your children," when that reference is to the entire population's vs. your own.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I don't disagree with you about the downgrade. It's going to happen for some contracts & funds that have certain requisites, as S&P says we're still fucked. This should have been bigger, and originally was proposed to be. And cuts should have come from everywhere and taxes should have gone up, especially for certain people that have proven NOT to be job creators.

Like GE... which I find an interesting case since their CEO is on Obama's "jobs panel", and with a $15 billion profit last year paid zero taxes; in fact they got money back! The guy tasked to help consult on job growth.... this is rich... since taking over GE in 2001 has shed 36,000 domestic jobs, and so far 25,000 have re-appeared overseas. And that doesn't count their announcement last week to move their new CT Scan imaging operation to China.

As for your other request, I'll start you off with this Politifact analysis detailing how Romney was "mostly true" in his assertion that Obama has spent more money than all 43 previous presidents combined. The reason it's "mostly true" and not "100% true"? Obama's term hasn't finished yet.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...dd-more-debt-4/


I'll get you specifically what you asked for later... too tired now. But I must reiterate again: cutting taxes is not government spending; that's Washington bullshit-speak, and to believe that is to assume all money belongs to government first, before it's allocated.

No, the deficit doesn't matter. The only time it matters is if we can not pay it. Otherwise there is NO way that ratings agencies will downgrade us just for the hell of it. If we are making payments then we are golden.

That is how the system works. You think they'd throw a monkey wrench into the system by downgrading the US when it is paying on time? No fucking way. They threaten downgrade when countries have no way to pay, or look like they will have no way to pay in the near future, like Greece.

The US is not in any position where we are going to be denied loans. If we keep making good on our interest payments then no one is going to touch us, because they cant do it with out fucking over themselves. The whole system is like Jenga, we keep building the tower taller and taller, and as long as everything remains steady then it can keep going higher and higher.

Either the republicans are too stupid to realize that they can game the system like this, or their own idealogical pigheadedness is such that they are willing to fuck over EVERYONE to make a point.

If I am wrong, explain to me how any good could come from an arbitrary reduction in our credit rating and why it hasn't been done yet?

Also, you guys keep talking about reductions in credit ratings like it is the natural law. There is no natural law in economies of this scale or complexity, everything comes down to biased decisions of people. It is not a inherent law of physics or other universal constant, it is essentially a game created by men.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Kev, Do you realistically believe that the highest bracket now should be 39.6% for $380,500+? Especially considering that few people that make that much get direct deposit from their job, as opposed to most of their income coming from investments? At what point do you say that you're getting tons of benefits from lower cost airfare, which is subsidized by the federal government? Or other actions that benefit higher income people that utilize the international trade system more than most people have the chance to? Don't get me wrong, I realize you push lots of your income through Singapore and other out-of-country areas (as you've stated in PDD before), but explain how that is a viable motive "for your children," when that reference is to the entire population's vs. your own.

Since late 2009 all income we've made both here and abroad has been wired to the US and taxed accordingly. We haven't been slipping through loopholes lately. That may change next year as we're forming a new joint venture that will probably be headquartered overseas, but we'll see. As of late, I've been doing my patriotic duty

To your original question... tough to answer because it depends on where you live. If you live in NYC, between federal, state, local, and city taxes you're giving up almost 70% of your income with a salary like that. To me that's fucked up, but NY is a bigtime welfare state and will pay the price for this soon since the high earners are leaving in droves for FL, TX and NH. In certain states where there is no State income tax, I think that 39% rate (or higher) is more justifiable for sure, yes. In my opinion though, I think a bigger problem is that a growing number of people aren't paying at all... we need tax payers man, and more of them. I've heard enough sob stories to last a lifetime- but even the people who make 20K, 15K, whatever... they should also be taxed on their income (albeit at a lower rate). They should pay SOMETHING. And what a difference it would make.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Weak. Opus' tactic was to inundate those who disagree with a minimum of 10,000 words and 50+ links to follow up on, that it took a solid 4+ hours to type up a reply. I tried it a couple of times, going balls out with him and next thing I knew 2 days had passed and his rebuttals were getting even longer. Boring me to death to the point where I don't have the energy to spend literally all day reading and responding to one topic that's getting beat to death more than Nou's self worth does not a victory make.

You’re not the only rape victim to complain about the length or girth let me tell you.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No, the deficit doesn't matter. The only time it matters is if we can not pay it. Otherwise there is NO way that ratings agencies will downgrade us just for the hell of it. If we are making payments then we are golden.

Agencies that have already downgraded the US:

1) Egan-Jones Ratings Co.
2) Weiss
3) Dagong Global Credit Rating (China)


So, again you look like a fool. Just stop.


EDIT: If you're wondering about Moody's:

quote:

Moody's: Neither debt plan protects the nation's AAA rating http://mobile.thehill.com//blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/174447-moodys-neither-plan-protects-the-nations-aaa-rating

Why is this? Because, as Moody's explains, even if we can service our debt right now, our leaders are not showing any serious effort to reform the larger issue of our god damn debt as a whole.

Last edited by The17sss on Aug-02-2011 at 04:33