quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 i will just stick my 2 cents in here: In germany, there was a lot of discussion recently (two summers ago i think) about a new law, which allowed homosexual couples to join a 'same-sex partnership', which gave them some of the benefits that families enjoy. The problem with this law was that the german constitution states that "protection of the family" is a goal for the government. As homosexual couples are unable to reproduce naturally, people argued that allowing them to create a "family-like" community would take away from the protection of the family. just a little fyi about other countries' laws

that's interesting. for some reason i thought germany was already more 'progressive' in this sense.

and p'zazz, im glad that you listened and thought about what people were saying. most people don't. cheers to you

--dannyB--

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Originally posted by decibel08 that's interesting. for some reason i thought germany was already more 'progressive' in this sense. --dannyB--

well, the law is in effect now. So homosexual couple now get some of the benefits.

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

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Originally posted by P`zazz this thread has changed my conceptions about homosexuality by a great deal... Before reading this thread I was against homosexual couples adopting children but I have now come to think that it should be made posible, there are so many kids out there that need a family and they deserve one, even if it is an 'unusual' one I am sure there are homosexual couples that can offer them more love and affection than some heterosexual ones :/ Despite what I said above and despite all the scientific researches that have been carried out I am yet to be convinced that children raised in homosexual families will not be affected phsycologically, I believe it all comes down to the childs personality and the weeker the personality a child has the more the chances it stands to be affected by this situation. On a general note I think people should open their minds as far as homosexual people are concerned, although I'm not the most open minded person there is on this matter I try to become better each day

It's not so much the problem how the child will be taken care of by it's adopted parents (although I'd be totally grossed out to have 2 dads and see them making out), but it's more about how the rest of the society will react. Take for example the first and last gay parade here. There were about 100 gays and about 10 times more anti-gay protestors, and the parade ended up with anti-gays throwing tear gas into the gay parade. Then they clashed with the police, and after that they were chasing gays all over the town. Most protestors carried nazi markings or were people expelled from the army, many with post traumatic stress from the war. Just so you don't think it's a local folk culture phenomenon, one of the protestors was a nun from the UK that just happened to be in the UK embassy on a missionary journey and she held a large statue of virgin Mary while having other hand high up in the air and yelling "sieg heil", "kill the gays", etc. In Serbia, they also had a first and last gay parade, where whole of Belgrade gathered with baseball bats and clashed with the gays while the police just watched. Those people are surely idiots, but imagine a kid having gay parents in such surroundings. Since most of those protesters were already violent armed people, I'm sure the gays would get a hand grenade thrown into their house 2 days after adoption. Besides, even if that doesn't happen, most religious people, and the church itself, would shun and discriminate them. Also those kids would probably be regularly beat up in school.

As far as adoption goes, I think that the state is the one that should take care of the excess unwanted children instead of relying on childless couples, in a way it should construct facilities where those children will be educated and taken care of. Much like the old schools in the UK where children spent most of their time away from parents anyway. That way, cases where parents who adopt are violent or pedophiles or something like that would be eliminated, and it would be ensured that the kids are generally treated in a good manner.

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Originally posted by Dave Albert The bible clearly states homosexuality is wrong and those who participate will not be saved.

Saved by who/what?

Evidence for the existance of a higher being is basically non existent.

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quote:

Originally posted by arctic Saved by who/what? Evidence for the existance of a higher being is basically non existent.

oh really mr. hardcore atheist?? explain your existence and where humans came from with evidence

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Originally posted by Muff2K oh really mr. hardcore atheist?? explain your existence and where humans came from with evidence

a little bit of open mindedness is probably required here, since we all use different explanations for why we are here and what we are to do here.. Some people dont need God... whats wrong with that? I have been on both sides... Right now i dont need God, but rather chose to live a life loving God. Basically i see God in everything and i believe that God is my ture reflection.

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Originally posted by Muff2K oh really mr. hardcore atheist?? explain your existence and where humans came from with evidence

Congratulations, you have just committed a classic fallacy of ignorance. You might want to look it up.

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Originally posted by Muff2K oh really mr. hardcore atheist?? explain your existence and where humans came from with evidence

well, there was this thing, called the big bang (stephen hawking predicts we're headed toward the implosion, or big crunch) which spawned the universe out of some weird particles, ask a physicist. earth formed from a mass of protons, electrons, and neutrons all coagulating and sticking together through gravity, one of the 4 fundamental forces (others being the weak, the strong, and the electromagnetic). variations in atoms led to the primordial ooze, single celled life grew in swamps and eventually developed into larger creatures and some moved onto land. from there its just evolution.

i understand some people are religiously opposed to evolution, ie we can't have come from monkeys (or amoebas really), but this is how i see the 'scientific truth', and i subscribe to the scientific truth because i am an engineer and that's how i think.

i personally do believe in spirituality and other planes of existence etc, but not in a white bearded guy sitting in the clouds and throwing lightning bolts. just my view.

--dannyB--

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oh really mr. hardcore atheist?? explain your existence and where humans came from with evidence

Hmm, ever heard of evolution? There are many skeletons of human ancestors that are somewhere between a man and a monkey. Besides, we share more than 99% of our genetic code with a chimpanzee. Imo, that's a pretty strong evidence. Even the catholic church admits evolution as a viable, and infact probable theory. The evidence for the existance of god, on the other side is absolutely non-existant.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Hmm, ever heard of evolution? There are many skeletons of human ancestors that are somewhere between a man and a monkey. Besides, we share more than 99% of our genetic code with a chimpanzee. Imo, that's a pretty strong evidence. Even the catholic church admits evolution as a viable, and infact probable theory. The evidence for the existance of god, on the other side is absolutely non-existant.

Or maybe we can look at the real reseons behind religon. To keep the masses under control. It is a tool of explotation.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" Karl Marx

ohhhhhhhh man.... you guys...religion as control... hah! if you want it to be sure... Its up to u. Religion is just a tool. For many of u more spiritually advanced being, i guess it is not necessary.